0 
0 I didn’t want to write about this.
Hell, I didn’t even want to know about it.
I remember the first time I heard of it while I was in Amman. Eblis sent me an e-mail titled “Behold the revolution in Egypt” with a link to malek’s post on it and I stupidly clicked on it and was presented with a reality that I didn’t want or desire to confront.
The story is as follows for the those of you who didn’t hear about it: It was the first day of Eid, and a new film was opening downtown. Mobs of males gatherd trying to get in, but when the show was sold out, they decided they will destroy the box office. After accomplishing that, they went on what can only be described as a sexual frenxy: They ran around grabbing any and every girl in sight, whether a niqabi, a Hijabi or uncoverd. Whether egyptian or foreigner. Even pregnant ones. They grabbed them, molested them, tried to rip their cloths off and rape them, all in front of the police, who didn’t do shit. The good people of downtown tried their best to protect the girls. Shop owners would let the girls in and lock the doors, while the mobs tried to break in. Taxi drivers put the girls in the cars while the mobs were trying to break the glass and grab the girls out. It was a disgusting pandamonium of sexual assaults that lasted for 5 houres from 7:30 PM to 12:30 am, and it truns my stomach just to think about it.
I called my father when I heard of that happening, and he informed me that he didn’t hear of it at all. They watched Al Jazeerah, CNN, flipped through opposition newspapers, and nothing. Nada. Nobody mentioned it. As if it didn’t happen.
But it did.
The bloggers available downtown documented the whole thing, and provided pictures of it as well. Reading their accounts I can’t help by feel my heart being torn on what the people of the country has turned to. The one that broke my heart the most was Sharqawi’s account (remember, he is the guy who got sexually assaulted by the police during interrogation ) and how it suddenly danwed at him that what happend to him wasn;t an isolated incident. That The Police forces didn;t came from another planet, that they were born and raised egyptians, amongst the egyptian people, the same egyptian people who have produced those mobs who found it in their right to attack girls in middle of crowded downtown for 5 houres under the police’s watchdul eyes. The ones who approached the police asking them to do something were told : “what do you want us to do? It’s Eid. Happy Eid to you too!” The same response was given to women who went to the police stations to report the incidents. The police refused to do their jobs and take a report, because it would probably reflect badly on their downtown peers. Some people were surprised at the Police’s reaction, but the majoirty of us weren’t. Those are the same police officers who facilitated the assaults on women last year during the referendum. This is business as usual for them.
What was unusual was the silence of the press. Nobody was mentioning it. Nobody was bringing it up. It seemed like there was some consensus of just not reporting it and maybe it will just go away. What at first seemed like a conspiracy got later on confirmed by my sources in the news media. Al Jazeera had taped the incidents but were forbidden to air it at the request of the egyptian authorities. The editor at a leading newspaper refused to touch it with a 6 foot pole. This was going to be one of those incidents that only the blogsphere would talk about, while the mainstream media ignored.
Until Nawarah Negm blew the whole thing wide open on live television on the Dream Channel.
She was brought in as a writer to be part of a fluffy segment on Mona Al Shazly show talking about the Ramadan TV shows, and the girl’s first response to the question was: “What Television shows do you want to discuss, when egyptian girls are assaulted on the streets of Cairo while the police watched and did nothing?” When Mona counterd that she never heard of it before, Nawarah told her all about it, in details and how it’s all over the internet.
All of Egypt saw that. The cat was out of the bag. A cover-up was no longer feasiable.
When I spoke to the brilliant Nawarah yesterday, she told me that she was debating talking about it or not on television, that was until she was faced with the camera and found herself on the air, and just couldn’t hold herself back. She went for it, and god bless her for having the guts to do that.
The next day, Mona Al Shazly went and did a segment on the incident and interviewed the people on the street. The video of the segment is here (arabic, sorry). She even contacted the Ministery of Interior for a statement. You know what their response was?
“We didn’t hear of anything. This didn’t happen. Things were just crowded in downtown that day, but no girls were assaulted, because no police reports were filed in that regard!”
FUCKERS!
I am not one of those people who claims to be above hate. I do hate, and I hate quite passionately, the same way when I love I love passionately. But I have to say that I have never hated anyone or group as much as I hate the egyptian police at this moment. It’s a hate of unequaled proportions. I really wouldn’t mind them all dying horrible deaths right now. A police force that doesn’t protect its citizens, especially its women, has no business being on the streets. They become nothing more than an organized armed gang now in my opinion, even lower, because they are shaming everyone who wore theat uniform before and did his job. THEY DESERVE TO DIE!
Anyway, the TV show brought it up, and now Egypt’s leading newspaper, Al Masry Al youm, featured two columns on the incident. More is bound to come and this national shame will be exposed and confronted.
Now, the egyptian blogsphere has been abuzz in debate over the incident. Some are writing posts on why it happend, possible causes, what it means, the social and political factors that could possibly lead to this behavior, and quite honestly, I can’t be botherd. I don’t care why it happend. Rape is not up for debate. I just care that it happend. What we should discuss right now isn’t what caused it, but what kind of horrible punishment that should be enacted on any egyptian male who thinks that it is well into his right to sexually harass a female on the street. That’s it. Pure and simple.
I am often told that I am too westernized or too liberal by people I know, and they are not wrong or inaccurate. My values are for the most part western values. However, there are two middle-eastern traits in me that I can never give up: The first is my stupid insistince on always paying for the bill when I am with a girl I am dating, and the second is my protectiveness of women. I have no tolerance for those who assault women sexually in any way, and that almost got me kicked out of my school in Boston when I broke the leg of one of my roommates who raped a friend of mine. The incident only resulted in him getting a broken leg because people stoped me before I killed him. And I had the full intention of killing him. Rapists do not deserve to live. And that’s how I feel towards every single one of those pieces of shit that attacked women on the streets of cairo the other day.
People can debate solutions based on dialogue, education, or whatever and that’s their right. My solution is far simpler: Any egyptian man whose mother raised him right should beat the living crap of any man he sees on the street that assaults or harasses a female. Think of them as your sisters, and act accordingly. The Police isn’t interested in protecting the women, and that’s fine, but that means that we should take this job as our own. Those who insist on acting like animals will be treated as such, and deserve no sympathy or mercy from us. I assure you, if we did this, if we undertook this as part of our national duty, there will no longer be a problem on our streets.
That is all!
English
Words like this are a huge comfort in light of how many men in the Middle East share the ‘women are meat on the street’ ideaology.
Women can raise awareness but it won’t stop until men speak to one another as you have.
I’ve never heard of anything like this. This is sheer madness. People are becoming more religious but their behaviors are getting worse.
This is horrific. Echos of ‘cats and meat’ here … how disgusting.
Wake up, Egypt. Wake up, please!
It is so sad to see what is happening to egypt and egyptians
Thanks for posting it, Monkey. Hats off and all respect to you.
omg this is totally insane…how can anybody just let such things happen? in texas, somebody would have stopped these idiots with a shotgun! most likely the women!
You are amazing. Not many men care about women the same as you.
What happened in your country is horrifying and even more horrifying ãre the cover-ups.
One of those rare times that I find myself in complete agreement with you. They do deserve to die. Every last one of those sons of bitches.
Reminds me of the “wilding” incident in NY central park. A bunch of blacks decided to start harassing and assaulting white women in the park, and cops stood back and did nothing because they didn’t want to “make things worse”.
In both cases, a good guy with an M-16 and immunity from prosecution would have been a good thing.
Sam, this is fucked up, the more I read, the more disgusted I was. As much as this doesn’t make sense now, but Egypt is on it’s way to anarchy. The freakin’ asshole who is watching his people suffer, will soon go down.
Egypt was never like this..
And we all know who to blame.
I can’t believe the police just watched, as men acted like mad animals.
This is really sad.
I can’t express how disgusted I am by this shameful behavior.
Why is this unacceptable? There’s nothing out of the ordinary here! Why does it surprise anyone that knows anything about Egypt that women are publically raped while the cops watch. Sounds about par for the course.
One day, SM, one day rapes commited on the streets of Egypt in front of the watchful eyes of the police, who are supposed to protect you, will soon be commonplace and a normal occurrence. Hopefully you won’t be so bothered next time….
It ALL comes back to the “women are cat meat” theory/ideology. This mentality has infected huge portions of our country. Until Egyptians stop following these ignorant narrow-minded views shit like this will continue to happen.
Screw Egypt and the mess that it has become. I’m sick of reading about it. I’m sick of Egypt. I’m sick of Egyptians in Egypt who are hopelessly powerless to do anything.
I don’t know, maybe it’s the whole being raped in public while cops watch that has thrown me over the edge…
Sam, just let me know wha tyou need and I will try to help
i’ll raise my every hat i ever got or going to have..
SM.. m3 eni delwa2ti 7azena for different “other” news, just heard.. bas your words made me happy … God bless you yabni,,,
Well done, SM. I admire your attitude and your eloquence in expressing it.
My hope is that egyptian women now become part of the solution. Not by wearing hijabs! – not least because that didn’t help in the current instance. But by grouping together to change society.
At least – that’s what led to women’s relatively good treatment in the west. (Yes, I know about the central park incident. We’ll never live in a perfect world. But, on the whole, they’ve come a long way baby.)
On balance, society becomes much better when women force it to include them as a powerful voice whose opinions must be heard and included. For example, some female cops – especially female senior cops – would have helped in the recent disgrace.
Of course – it’s the emancipation of women that’s given us presidents like carter and clinton, restrictions on smoking, and all the other pestilences of a feminized society. Still and all, we’re better off with them included than we were when they were excluded. I hope they will soon become equally forceful in egypt.
Like smarty says, we had an incident in New York similar to this, some years ago. All the video and photos of the perps was in the news, and the police were asking for help identifying the perps. They were then arrested and prosecuted (a lot fo them, anyway) and there hasn’t been an incident since. Maybe that would work in EGypt, too. The public humiliation of both the perps and their family/friends would go a long way in Egypt, I’m guessing, even if the prison sentences didn’t.
But the conduct of the cops…. unforgiveable.
Amino Says:”As much as this doesn’t make sense now, but Egypt is on it’s way to anarchy. The freakin’ asshole who is watching his people suffer, will soon go down. Egypt was never like this.. And we all know who to blame.
I can’t believe the police just watched, as men acted like mad animals.
This is really sad.”
What makes you think Egypt was never like this? This is a country where over 80 percent of the women suffer FGM. What has happened is that the entire rural population has moved to Cairo. Presumably the countryside was *always* like this, it was just the European-influenced cities that were different. Even then, do you think that in the 50s the satellite suburbs were any different? I agree that some things have changed. Polygamy is more common. Rich Arabs from Gulf push the price of young women up and so delay marriage for young Egyptian men. But when young boys one generation from the country do this, of course the young boys one generation from the country in uniform do nothing. That is not what they are there for. People like Sheik Hilali don’t come from nowhere. Their views are not new. Hilali quoted al-Rafi’i, for crying out loud, arguing that even in cases of forcible rape the female victim ought to be jailed for life. They asked for it you see.
“People like Sheik Hilali don’t come from nowhere. Their views are not new. Hilali quoted al-Rafi’i, for crying out loud, arguing that even in cases of forcible rape the female victim ought to be jailed for life. They asked for it you see.”
The only true solution is to destroy Islam. Egypt is the home of the Pharaohs and a noble and ancient society – ruined by the Arab invasion of the seventh century.
Anything those Arabs touched was desecrated. Now is the time to fight back before the rest of the world is similarly desecrated.
Any ideas when the mass media might get around to deciding to cover this?
“The only true solution is to destroy Islam. Egypt is the home of the Pharaohs and a noble and ancient society – ruined by the Arab invasion of the seventh century.”
YES YES Abu Kufr. You are right in one regard.
But a more pragmatic solution is required since I don’t think the “destruction of Islam” will obviously ever happen. Islam should be reformed so that Shukh Hilali is not the mouthpiece of the religion. I just don’t have the slightest clue on how this reformation should take place…
I hope the news of this spreads throughout the world and produces some action, such as a boycott of Egypt as a tourist destination. I also hope that in every mosque in the Western world where the ideology of hatred is preached by the resident Iman, he will be exposed and rooted out. This is outrageous. It must stop.
No, there’s no need to destroy Islam. There’s an urgent need to destroy Islamism, though.
I know very decent Muslims to whom I would confide my daughter any time. What’s happening here is something different. Islam is taken over and abused. This is not the Islam I know. And I’ll never let anyone destroy the decent Muslims I know.
K, it’s end of ramadan. These men weren’t allowed to have any sexual thoughts or even doing it. Have u ever seen 40 days and 40 nights? Yeah, you’ll know what I mean. Men go crazy.
Arab men who weren’t raised properly and learned from madrassa schools simply don’t know. Put them in a civilized society, and then they’ll learn that they’re gonna have to be equal to the women.
Egypt? I don’t know.
I still read ur blog sometimes. Western values are one thing, but the rage and disgust that follows reading about something like this is something else. I totally agree with u this time if this really happened, and it sounds like it did sadly enough. But these people seems like they in fact are the same kind of thugs that the police uses to do their dirty work. So I’m actually not that surprised that the police stood there and did nothing. Lets hope their sisters get the same treatment one day.
U broke your roommate’s leg? Man, that’s painful enough. Good job, u did the right thing.
We gotta stop all those arab rapists who rape non muslims and muslims. Women should be the leaders of their countries. not men.
Maybe I am too influenced by a Napoleonic legal system and maybe I am more full of hate than the SM, but my brain tells me death is too harsh a punishment for this assholes, and my soul is convinced death doesn’t quite cut it, that they deserve worse, much worse. I say beat them, but not to death, but within an inch of their lives. Beat them so that they never again have proper use of their arms, legs and obviously underdeveloped penises. Beat them until they are confined for the rest of their lives to a dirty spot in the floor drooling, unable to remember who they are, soiling themselves, and this hardly is enough punishment for rapists (and child molesters, for that case).
^^^^^^^^^^^^
and faggots
Enrique: “beat them, but not to death, but within an inch of their lives. Beat them so that they never again have proper use of their arms, legs and obviously underdeveloped penises”
How about castration?
Less work for the prison authorities. And fits the crime.
F**ing h**. You’ve got me thinking like a saudi!
“Lets hope their sisters get the same treatment one day.” Hany – no, no, no! What kind of wish is this! Hey! 🙁
Has anyone heard anything at all from the young women involved? Probably too ashamed and frightened, right? Probably think it was their fault for being out in public during this time, poor things.
Sandmonkey, I think you are doing the best you can. You’ve described the incident in a way that makes people feel the injustice and inhumanity of it all. I don’t know if Islam is truly at fault. I personally have many conflicted feelings about it, but I’ve known many decent, civilized Muslims and I know they must be appalled. What a horrific mess. There are so many elements to it that seem to have conspired into one big witches brew.
Bec,
Ok, U’re right. Lets hope they get raped themselves then.
SM – a disgusting story indeed and one to make any decent man feel ashamed. But from your account, the degenerate behaviour was not universal and you should be proud of the shopkeepers and taxi-drivers who tried to protect the women under attack, no doubt putting themselves and their property at risk. True, it is no more than you would hope for from civilised men, but it should give hope that all is not lost.
However, woe on a society whose appointed guardians stand by and let the lawless run loose. The police are required to put themselves in harms way to protect the weak and the innocent, but this bunch of scum vermin are a disgrace to their uniform and the society that they are supposed to be protecting. Perhaps an Israeli smart bomb on the local police barracks might not be a totally bad thing.
Good luck Egypt – you are going to need it, by all accounts.
Egypter: “I just don’t have the slightest clue on how this reformation should take place…”
I just don’t have the slighest clue how this took place, but it did; and things can change for the better. We just need to keep picking away at the problem, eventually cracks will form in the rock.
It is not just Egypt but the entire Eastern Hemisphere, extending from parts of Eastern Europe to Japan that suffers from the ailment called misogyny. Culture, Tradition, Religion and some old fashioned male chauvinism have all played a part in this. It is not as if the Western world is completely free of this scourge, however the success of women in various fields of life and their empowerment has reduced it to a large extend over the past century, or thereabouts. The other major factor which always encourages such wanton rapacious behaviour is the stigma associated with the rape victim. Religion and culture often dictate the ostracisation of the victim and the trauma of reliving the entire episode many times over dissuade them from coming out in the open.
The reluctance of the Police in restraining the mob was in itself a crime, and would amount to being accessories to it. However, the disgraceful attempts made by the Police in brushing the entire incident under the carpet is more so. A friend of mine who worked for an NGO aiding rape victim told me once that the actual act of rape is only the first in a series of rapes the victim is subjected to- the rest of the events that follow, from filing the complaint to the trial to the often helplessness she feels as a result of lack of support, amount to nothing short than rape.
I am no fan of the Shariah law, but in this instance I am ready for a compromise, let the perpetrator’s of this horrible crime be tried in the regular courts and if, found guilty, be subjected to the punishment for rape under the Shariah. That, I think will be the best that you can give these women, who have already been through so much this Eid.
[…] Le reste de l’article est trop long à traduire, et il renvoie sur d’autres Blogs qui en parlent, même sur une vidéo qui relate l’événement. Je vous invite à le consulter ici (en anglais). […]
“the degenerate behaviour was not universal and you should be proud of the shopkeepers and taxi-drivers who tried to protect the women under attack”
The true heroes of the story!! Thanks for the reminder, charlie 316! I wish we could give these folks more praise and public attention.
There’s definitely a way of dealing with future assaults and lesser shows of disrespect. Volunteers, patrol the streets with cameras or cellphones and take snapshots of these incidents! If they are as frequent as you say, soon you’ll have a photo-library of the perpetrators AND the cops who let it happen. Note the place and time of these incidents, interview the victims if possible. Set up a website and publish the photos. Invite the public, the Ministry of Interior and the police to view the website. Add new material every day and watch things happen. Simple enough, isn’t it?
On the matter of hijab, niqab and whatnot: Egypt is not the only sad example of Islamic sexual anarchy. Many European girls suffer the same or worse. In Norway alone, every year an average of 400 girls (predominantly white) are raped by young Muslim men. It has gone so far that a silly government official recommended that Norwegian women who live or work near the areas where these assaults happen should wear hijab for protection. The events in Egypt confirm that the veil is no protection whatsoever.
Eva: “Many European girls suffer the same or worse. In Norway alone, every year an average of 400 girls (predominantly white) are raped by young Muslim men. It has gone so far that a silly government official recommended that Norwegian women who live or work near the areas where these assaults happen should wear hijab for protection. The events in Egypt confirm that the veil is no protection whatsoever.”
Yep, it is just capitulation to sick bastards.
I am no fan of the Shariah law, but in this instance I am ready for a compromise, let the perpetrator’s of this horrible crime be tried in the regular courts and if, found guilty, be subjected to the punishment for rape under the Shariah. That, I think will be the best that you can give these women, who have already been through so much this Eid.
I disagree. I despise Shariah Law in all it’s forms. If the rapists are found guilty, let the secular laws punish him. Give him the death penalty. Shariah Law is not the only law system with the death penalty, you know.
Arab men need to have “group think” removed from their heads.
Mobs are the ultimate form of group think, and thoughtless mobs are just what radical islam needs to fester.
If this sort of thing were to start in Boise, Idaho, where I live, there would be 20 armed white boys shooting the bad guys down like dog. And we would probably all sleep in our own beds that night after being interviewed by the cops.
On my last trip to Egypt, I felt free to walk the streets of downtown Cairo by myself in the daytime to explore, despite protestations by my family, and went with a friend twice during the evening. I can’t really imagine something like that happening considering that most people I dealt with (before and during Ramadan) were considerate. I did leave the country feeling sad over many other things that are steadily deteriorating on the other hand. I disagree with the comment that Egypt was like that 50 years ago; neither in the cities nor in the countryside. Just about everyone I’ve spoken to or read for who lived during that time can attest to the change.
That said, this incident did immediately remind me of the 2000 Central Park riot. In the US, the police was also accused of watching and doing nothing while the women were being assaulted. The perpetrators were eventually convicted and several lawsuits were brought against the NYC police. One year later, several women were practically raped by a group of young men at a Seattle Mardis Gras. There are problems like these in the US; but they’re harder to sweep under the rug like the authorities do in Egypt.
25 years ago, my friend was almost raped while visiting the Pyramids with her mother. Luckily, she got away.
A second friend was at a resort about 12 years ago, and a man followed her into a bathroom. When she screamed, the police came and basically planted a gun on her, then arrested her. Fortunately, her dad was a bigwig who pulled some strings to get her out of jail.
Another female friend was travelling on an Egyptian train about 10 years ago when a man whipped it out and started masturbating in front of her.
Sorry, but I’ve always though of Egyptian men as pervs.
But on a related topic, here’s a question: Why don’t societies that prohibit extra-marital sex but have an oversupply of poor young males just promote homosexuality as a solution?
The men would get plenty of sex, the women wouldn’t be harassed, and everyone would be better off. The taboo against gay sex is screwing up supply and demand.
Discuss amongst yourselves!
I’m a woman, I have daughters and I am not “above” hate either. I’m feeling so much of it right now.
I don’t have any other words except I am so sorry.
Dear G-d.
* The perpetrators should be locked up.
* The police who let this happen should be fired and locked up.
* The shopkeepers who protected women against the mob should be honored.
* The mainstream media should be ashamed of itself.
“The bloggers available downtown documented the whole thing”The POWER of the blogosphere! Fuck the MSM! Thank you SM, I would of course also never heard of this if not for you.
Forcing yourself on a lady is just wrong. There does not need to be laws about it – it should just be common sense.
“Any egyptian man whose mother raised him right … ”
Agreed. What would your mothers think of you, those that particpated in this outrage?
Smarty said: If this sort of thing were to start in Boise, Idaho, where I live, there would be 20 armed white boys shooting the bad guys down like dog. And we would probably all sleep in our own beds that night after being interviewed by the cops.
Unfortunately, I get the feeling that those “20 armed” boys would have been the ones treated as criminals in this situation.
Frenzy is right Sam. This whole horrible thing is CAUSED by sexual repression.
Uh, how can you say that protectiveness towards women is a Middle Eastern quality??
It’s quite the opposite. Protectiveness towards women is a Western quality. Women in the ME are just tissues to be used up and thrown away.
Sandmonkey,
Paying a woman’s way on a date is not just a Middle-Eastern trait, nor is being protective of women. It’s also American.
Or it used to be, back in the old days, when I was a youngster…
Thanks for this post.
Rapists do not deserve to live.
What if the meat is uncovered? I mean, how are those good Islamic boys going to control themselves around uncovered meat? It could be prime rib, or a ribeye fergoodnessake!
[…] Australian Imam Al-Halimi’s despicable remarks that Western women’s dress invites rape, would seem to suggest that in an Islamic country women are highly respected and protected, precisely because of the fact that are dressed more modestly by far than their Western sisters. Imagine my surprise and disgust therefore when I found the following on Rantings of a Sandmonkey The Sandmonkey is an Egyptian Muslim superblogger and here is what he writes: The Eid sexual harassment incident […]
Thank you for exposing this terrible incident, SM. It seems to be a universal problem, but perhaps not as crazy and done so openly as the incident in Egypt.. . . but just as bad. The US has a huge problem with violent crime–crimes against women, children, and innocent people. Rape is about violence, violating someone’s rights and body, and it has little or nothing to do with the clothing or attractiveness of the victim. I live in Austin, Texas, and a few years ago in a small town near here, an 85 year old woman was raped and murdered in the house she had lived in for fifty years. She rarely went out and was attacked in her little kitchen. An important question to ask is why the violent ideation in Egypt? Why the creation of violent sexual perpetrators in the US? When I took a course on criminality a few years ago, I read stats that one out of every 19 males in the US was a sociopath. I teach school in a tiny Texas town, and you cannot imagine the horrible situations that so many of my students live in and the violence in their homes and daily lives.
Sophia, I think that you are right when you say that this issue is caused by societal forces, but I don’t think repression. I would say more a lack of respect and value for women and others in general in the Egyptian society at this time. Not a problem unique to Egypt though.
It is sickening. I am extremely worried about the future of my country when I see the terrible problems daily in the school setting. Many of the students express violence, act on violence, are desperate for attention, and live in chaotic or cold, unwelcoming homes. They are not well-adjusted, and they are very prone to violence. I had students that laughed themselves sick when viewing the early reports of 9/11; they thought it was hilarious to see people dying. All of us who post do our parts by sharing our thoughts, feelings and ideas. We reach others and we can do our part to share the values of kindness and respect. I teach my students, yes, but my main goal is to be an example of calm and kindness at all times for my students and to try to influence them in a positive way. We can all do what we can. As for the so-called “news”. I get my news from the blogosphere. I do not want to read biased, fradulent reporting like you get from the BBC, Reuters, and most mainstream media. I am more interested in hearing what you all say in the comments section that some biased crap couched in “objective language” from some biased news reporter. I’ve have said far more than I meant to. I think that part of the answer is to promote values of kindness and respect, and I feel frustrated that there seems to be so little that I can actually accomplish. But perhaps collectively we can all make a difference. . . Shalom, lynne
I’m dumbfounded; stunned – almost speechless. I saw BP’s little “rape” rant a few days ago but put it aside to “not understanding culture/humor” … I realize how wrong I was now.
This is indeed terrible. I see that “our” western media reports about the school bombing in Pakistan and how the clerics calls for uprisings against both the US and the Pakistan government because of it. NO mention of this tragedy anywhere. No reaction from religious leaders – I guess after all, it’s “just” women??
What kind of skewed mentality is this? Why does Islam seem so sex-fixated to us westerners? From Europe and Australia we see reports of gangs of young Muslim men raping white women, characterizing them as whores – this can’t be what Islam is about?? Why wouldn’t religious leaders step up and protect the most valuable thing we have in society – our women?
However, SM – it does scare me that you fall this easy to hatred. In the end, you would easily do the same thing as those you hate?? Why is that any better?
I have never heard a better reason for riot police to run in with batons swinging but they just stood and watched? Excuse me while I throw up.
Australia was condemned for the Cronulla riots a while back but our police went in bravely, against in some instances overwhelming odds because to let innocent people be attacked was wrong. The police who let these rapes and assault continue without even trying to stop it are not men in my opinion. I can’t see how any man could stand by while this is happening; in this way I totally agree with SM. What Egypt needs is not this pretend respect that some of these Islamists are pushing but the true old time respect where women were respected and men had enough respect for themselves not to act worse than animals. I know a few old time cops who would have shown these rapists the errors of their ways and the would never be able to forget it.
This incident shows a society that has truly become sick and if people aren’t prepared to fix it then your country is heading straight to hell; be that in the religious sense of afterlife or the now sense of a place not worth living in.
Kate in NYC
“But on a related topic, here’s a question: Why don’t societies that prohibit extra-marital sex but have an oversupply of poor young males just promote homosexuality as a solution?
The men would get plenty of sex, the women wouldn’t be harassed, and everyone would be better off. The taboo against gay sex is screwing up supply and demand.”
Are you trying to suggest that if men aren’t having sex then they are just going to go around raping? After SM post today I find it hard to defend men but from my own perspective no sex does not mean I need to go out and rape someone. I have more respect for women and myself to do such a sick and disgusting thing. What needs to be promoted is the old ideas of respect for women and yourself. Yes, I know I’m socially and religiously conservative and supposed this is what the Islamist blaming women for rape are but the men I know who follow their beliefs truly would never do what these animals have done nor could they stand by and let it happen.
I hate to say this, but the true misogynists won’t be happy until women are completely annihilated. They’re not content to violate, rape and oppress us, I think they really want us dead.
Please give me some perspective on this. I’m a 54 year old American Christian. Reading this I come away with the impression it’s tied into Islam (women/uncovered meat) and it’s treatment of women as second class citizens. I’m not one to reflexively jump on the, “Islam is an evil religion” bandwagon but it’s difficult not to see a connection here. I’d appreciate some feedback. Thank you.
First I have to applaud Nawarah for being brave enough to bring it up on national TV and breach the silence in the media. Open discussion about this and hopefully outright disgust in all of Egypt is the only way to possibly prevent this in the future. I wouldn’t expect the police to change. We’ve all seen them and we all know they are worthless, but it is possible that public discussion about this and public outrage at the behavior of the men involved in the riots will lead to a type of social sanctioning against this behavior. And in the future more men will fight the mob mentally and stand up for what is right. Many of the other comments state that women should come together. No! It is the men that have to make this change. It is the men who need to talk about this to one another and agree that protection of women is not limited to their immediate family. Every single one of those men has a mother, a sister, an aunt and you know that had some other man assault their family member that they would fucking kill that guy. And if men can agree that these act are reprehensible then other men won’t do it.
The sad thing is, that I don’t have to see pictures to imagine what took place. I know the people that did this. I have seen them and that look in their eyes. I have the worthless fucking police on every corner. And what gives me hope is that I have seen the true men that are protective and respectiveful of women and the look in their eyes. The men that carry you to safety and are filled with embarisment of their fellow countryman. They are the ones who give me hope for Egypt.
You said that you were surprised by the silence of the media. Really? It seems par for the course. How much reporting came after the Dahab bombing? Other newspapers were reporting on the lack of response in the Egyptian press. Which is a shame because that bombing and the ones that preceeded it did more harm to Egypt and Islam than any fucking cartoon ever could and yet what do people really get worked up about. The people of Egypt will continue shrug off these damning events unless the media makes them face them for what they are worth.
Keep the discussion alive and the press honest. Nawarah, you are hero to all those that suffered that night!
this is terrible, i cannot understand the culture who thinks women are nothing. i visited Egpt last year, we did have young men, serving the mandatory after school term, area with us, and they were armed, we never felt as if they would actually be needed though, the men we dealt with were very human and nice and respectable, every single one. The ony time i was a bit overwhelmed was the first day at the Bazzar, i can, now my picture of that day is mared with the vision of how it was on this day. i pray for the victims.
Lynne @45 – Good heavens. What’s going on in your neck of the woods in Texas? Episodes like those you describe don’t happen anywhere near where I live on the West Coast, but I know there many pockets of this awful violence in parts of the inner city not far away. It’s a human problem, though, I do agree. Perhaps it’s best to focus on the “Human” aspect of it and less on the Man vs Woman. Laws, fairness, opportunity, striving for human kindness – basically, the Golden Rule, prevalent throughout all the best civilizations whether they be Chinese, Indian, Christian or Muslim. No hope, otherwise, for our sorry species.
SM, I share your anger. These animals are the scum of the earth, but I dont agree with you on urging people to take the law into their own hands. The police MUST do their jobs. Also, I dont think anybody deserves to die. They are the lowest of the low, but what they deserve is to be behind bars, turning big rocks into small rocks.
this story is made up.
Okay I’m in class right now and I’m fasting but I couldn’t get my eyes to unglue themselves from the screen.
Dude this is FUCKED UP. Period! I’m speechless and I don’t know which is worse. Those horny bastards or the filthy fucked up police. Castrate them ALL OF THEM. No you know what. STONE THEM to DEATH!!!
Lynne @ 45 “I live in Austin, Texas, and a few years ago in a small town near here, an 85 year old woman was raped and murdered in the house she had lived in for fifty years.”
85 years old???!!! WTF!!? Are you serious!!! No wait excuse me for my language but ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS??!!
I’m sick to my stomach and I swear to God if Australia doesn’t deport that asshole “cat meat” shithead then the all members of the Australian government should be castrated too. As for Egypt, Lord have mercy!! Sigh! VERY BIG Sigh!!
The role of the MSM has been nothing short of shameless in this entire episode. I am yet to hear from any of the MSM even alluding to these “alleged atrocities”, going by their lingo. It is perhaps an instance of “Respect” that Galloway talks about.
Nawarah Negm needs to be praised for her courage in bringing this matter before the world and so should be Mona Al Shazly .
However, there is one question that goes unanswered in all this melee, does anybody, other than the victims and their relatives, even care to remember these events after the ‘novelty factor’ is exhausted. Several cases of sexual assault are forgotten after the initial outcry, only to return to prominence during the trial and the media frenzy that follows, to be forgotten once again.
Yesterday, the High Court in Delhi, India condemned a murderer and a rapist, after the trial court had acquitted him for lack of evidence. The story of the father of the victim is one of courage and I think would serve as a reminder to us all, that a responsible media makes the descend into complete anarchy, hopefully a distant dream.
Read more about the story here:-
http://expressindia.com/mattoo/
and read more about the conviction and sentencing here:-
http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=mattoo
The whole world is in a tailspin. This is an exceptional example but I could list dozens. Girl children are sold to tourists all over asia. Millions in the US waste their lives with drugs and the profits flow to al Queda and mafia kingpins. And on and on and on. Surely these are the Last Days. But most will not believe or see it. Finally in the end they will hide in caves and call the very rocks to fall on them and bury them. This earth will be wiped away and the meek shall inherit a new earth and a new heaven. When you see all these things … know that The Lord is indeed God of all and His Messiah shall reign over all. I know I know you scoff. Wait and see. If you live through the carnage to see it. You probably won’t.
One more thing…
You know what sickens me the most SM and I think you’ve thought about it too. When people demonstrate peacefully, PEACEFULLY all police comes to beat the shit out of them but when something like this happens they stand and do NOTHING.
Ya7leelil Masr illi kunna binool 3aleha ummil dunia. Kulu min zibalat Mubarak wamsalhum ili3indina fil Sudan bardo… Allah yestor o yihawin yakhi… Di 7aga faswa o A7777a gidan ya3ni.
Hey, “Sandmonkey”,
Youve certainly attracted quite a bunch of wackos here on this ‘matter’ in your comments. Now and then some of them even make some sense. But not often. I assume you’re used to airhead Westerners commenting on that which they do not understand, feminist ranters (ditto), religious nuts (ditto) and etc.
Just keep up the good work, and thank you. G]
[…] This just made me sick! SICK! You know what’s absolutely disgusting though? You know what? I mean I can’t even comprehend it. When people protest peacefully PEACEFULLY, the police beats the shit out of them and breaks up their protest but when innocent women get attacked and sexually harrassed the police does NOTHING!! What kind of utter bullshit is this?! They’re disgusting animals that should be castrated and then stoned to death! Ya7leelik ya Masr. Akalooki o kharribooki. Matistahleesh abadan walahi! […]
Why not give us your excellent insights into what’s really going on, Gerry? You seem to be the only one on the blogosphere who understands it 😛
This is hirhaba.
We have gangs of young men wandering around in the street, looking for targets. We have policemen who know what’s going on, and know they are outnumbered. We have a government that does not want the tourism industry to be affected. —-
So why are the gangs there?
This could be a dress rehearsal, similar to the events leading up to Krystallnacht. This could be a threat, to Westerners, to the Egyptian government, to the uppity women (well, then it spread, predictably, to anything female, covered or not) and to the anti-jihady Neo-con American Right-wing Zionist Christian Imperialist Conspiracy in the Middle-east.
Who incited these riots? What was the source of this outpouring of anger and bitterness, especially toward women? There are names associated with the speeches, and specific locations. What we need is published translations or recordings of what’s being said in the local mosques. The mufsidoon can’t get away with this, if their words are exposed.
C’mon Al jazeera, let’s hear from ye.
Drima, rape is more about violence than sex. The case of the 85 year old woman is not unique, as I have heard of many older women being raped. Just in the news last week in Austin, Texas, an 18 year old student ( a registered sex offender) tried to rape his unsuspecting 54 year old teacher in the classroom after school. (The state officials “forgot” to tell school officials that he was newly released from a juvenile facility and was dangerous.)
Men who commit these crimes are not “sex starved”; they are violent. Many are married and have girl friends and a steady supply of sex. It’s about violence.
In my opinion, this is not a men vs. women problem.
Most men are not violent or disrespectful or potential rapists! It is about atttitudes that develop due to forces in society. In the US, I feel sure that the absence of authentic role models, the influence of violence in the media, and other societal factors are creating the problem.
Bec, I have taught in several school settings in Austin. The incident of the glee and laughter about 9/11 occurred in a magnet school ( a mix of very bright kids and very poor, deprived inner city kids). It was the inner city poor kids, steeped in violence themselves, who thought the deaths in 9/11 to be so entertaining and funny. I am teaching now in a rural setting near Austin. Just last week one of the first graders was crying at school because his father killed his puppy in the backyard with a butcher knife because it vomitted in the house. Yesterday, one of my students talked about his mother’s death due to drug abuse. The kids see far too much violence. I see kids unsupervised, parents too focused on obtaining money and with little understanding of what children need in terms of a healthy home life, and children lacking basic parenting completely in some cases. In a way, I am surprised that it’s not worse here given the potential.
Bec, I do agree that the values of kindness, respect for human life, and the avoidance of violence should be emphasized everywhere, but that is unfortunately not the case. It seems that violence is actually encouraged by many, either directly as a solution or indirectly (through violent entertainment, for example).
SM, Drima, the police should have stopped this. For them to do nothing, is absolutely sickening.
Oh, I forgot to say:
Valerie, I think that you are on to something here. The media and the government do suppress news that might decrease tourism or create a bad impression. It seems that it is getting out of control.
Thank you so much for sharing this. Whether it is by gender, race, ethnicity, sexuality, age or religion, allowing a group to be labeled as inferior and treated as inferior fosters this activity. It is horrifying to think that had this courageous woman not spoken up on television, we may never have heard this story!
The days of sitting by and letting “government” protect and make decisions is over. We are the government, we are the power and we must stand up for our fellow humans and stop this cruelty.
offending story,but i have seen more offensive comments here,someone calling for destroying islam”which entails destroying more than one billion muslims to punish them for the sordid behaviour of a slimy gang”,some other comments are no better,most of the comments are trying to relate the whole problem to islam,which is nonsense,this is a social problem,not even a common social problem,i have never heard of a similar story,the rate of rape is more in the west than in the east”that has nothing to do with western values,right?”,its good to reject an error,but the worst thing is to adopt the same views of those whom you hate,alqaeda and muslim fanatics are calling for destroying the west,and they generalize upon every western thing,you are no better here,someone has just called for destroying islam,and the others are generalizing upon islam,i bet you all,those disgusting guys are some slimy gangsters who wouldn’t think of any religious cover up as you are all trying to imply here,they didn’t get out of mosque asking Allah to bless their abhorrent act,and any fanatic muslim leader would call for killing them,just as you all did here!.
comment on the reluctant police :i have heard once a member of kefaya,may be george isac,or kandil,quoting:”in a dictatorship the police forces will be assigned the responsibilities of protecting the government then for protecting mainly the regime,then their main concern will be only to protect the dictator”.no wonder!
i believe in Egyptian identity rather than arab identity,the Egyptian copts must be smarter,they want an Egyptian identity on the corpse of islam,thats a mistake,that way it will never work,people will not change their religion for an ideology,but they can easily believe in an ideology that doesn’t contradict their religion,attacking the others’ religion will make things worse.
Drima re #63
If Australia did deport him, they’d send his arse right back to Egypt- Hilali is Egyptian. And by the looks of things- he’ll fit right in. His wife is Lebanese which is why he gets so much support from the Lebs in Sydney who put his sorry arse there in the first place. He arrived in Australia on a tourist visa and overstayed his visa. But instead of deporting him, the government was convinced by the Lebs in Sydney to let him stay. They have been instrumental in raising his profile.
I’m apalled by what I’ve just read, but not surprised. I have yet to meet a woman who has not experienced some form of sexual harrassment or assault on the streets of Egypt. I’ve had fingers shoved up me in crowded places for crying out loud!
I’m also not surprised that the cops stood by and did nothing- they are corrupt- all they care about is taking bribes. I know because some of my relatives, I’m ashamed to say, are high ranking police in Egypt.
Egypt needs another Huda Shaarawi- the women of Egypt need to stop covering their faces in shame and shrouding themselves in darkness. They need to stand up and say NO. NO MORE.
The women of Egypt need to take the streets back. Egypt needs to take Egypt back from the Arabs and their Islamist ideologies.
Where, how, when does this revolution begin? I don’t know but it has to start somewhere.
To Subvet #57
This is not who we are. It is who we have become. It is who we have allowed ourselves to become because nobody cared enough to stop it. The majority of Egyptian people live in relative poverty while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer because of the corruption of the government. Egypt is a country on the verge of an explosion. These kinds of incidences are symptoms of a society that is sick and ill, where money talks and morals and values are expendable.
“Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please. (Qur’an 2:223, Dawood)”
What do you expect?
I just watched the video SM posted a link to. My arabic is not excellent (pretty bad actually) but there were interviews with some witnesses who verified that the scene was shameless, except for one old fart who insisted that nothing had happened. One shop owner reported that there were men assisting girls to take shelter in the shops, practically carrying them into the shops, as the shopowners tried to close the doors to keep the men out. One young fellow states that he saw a girl run into a shop followed by a crowd of men who had ripped her blouse. He also tells of men trying to pull a taxi driver and the girl he was sheltering out of a taxi. A fruit shop owner calls the scene shameless and embarrassing.
The response from the Minister of Internal Affairs (I think that’s the correct translation) made reference to the fact that there were a number of famous actresses attending a film premier at the downtown cinema and that the crowds had gathered there to see the actresses, but that there were no reports of any mishaps.
The anchorwoman (sorry I’m not familiar with who she is) asks why were none of the incidences reported and condemns the fact that nothing was officially reported. She also makes reference to the obligation on the media to report such incidences.
Anybody else with better Arabic than mine able to add to this?
Eva, Canada;
What are you talking about? I live in Oslo and have never heard any “government official” recomend women wear hijab in certain aereas because of sexual violence and believe me, if anyone had said such a thing it would have caused a huge scandal.
This story is absolutely appalling and I feel sorry for all the women who had to go through this nightmare, but to suggest that this is an “islamic issue” is just false, the Central Park incident shows that something like this could happen anywhere. The reson why this happened is because it’s alowed to happen. The police did nothing because their job is to protect the ruling elite, not the citizens and visitors to Egypt. The reson why it’s not reported is because it would make Egypt “look bad” and consequently make the rulers of the country look bad too. But violence and degradation of women is a world wide problem, not just in the muslim dominated part of the world.
Nothing like this happend.
It is even not imaginable in a muslim country.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLdUzQcpmg8
K, the central park attacks DO have something in common. In both cases we had groups of people that are concidered “oppressed minorities” by the MSM, which then has a history of covering for them and excusing them.
That’s why they called the central park thing “wilding” as if it was a college prank, when they should have said “gangs of black men attacking white women in broad daylight”. You see, according to the MSM, certain goups can only be portrayed as victims, not perpetrators. So if the thing in Egypt was reported, it would be minimized.
shams Says:”offending story,but i have seen more offensive comments here,someone calling for destroying islam”which entails destroying more than one billion muslims to punish them for the sordid behaviour of a slimy gang””
Why do you think destroying Islam would involve destroying more than one billion Muslims? Surely it would be liberating to end this sort of thing and prevent similar things happening again? Islam-as-it-is-practised is a problem. The question is whether “Reformed Islam” can exist or is just a phantom. I am increasingly inclined to think it is a myth.
shams Says:”most of the comments are trying to relate the whole problem to islam,which is nonsense,this is a social problem,not even a common social problem,i have never heard of a similar story”
But with the censorship of the Middle East why do you think you would have heard of similar stories? What is clear is that similar things, on a smaller scale, do exist and are everyday realities. Women cannot walk down the streets of any Muslim town in the world (with the possible exception of the more recently converted countries like Indonesia) without being harassed and assaulted. This is just a larger and more shameless event.
shams Says:”the rate of rape is more in the west than in the east”that has nothing to do with western values,right?””
There is not the slightest reason to think that rape rates are higher in the West. You can see how women are treated by their own families in both parts of the world to see the truth of that. Muslim women are not allowed out except in company in large parts of the Muslim world. It would be a brave girl who went out alone after dark even in Egypt. Western women drink too much, wear short skirts and walk home alone in the early hours of the morning without many problems. This is a problem with the Muslim world.
shams Says:”they didn’t get out of mosque asking Allah to bless their abhorrent act,and any fanatic muslim leader would call for killing them,just as you all did here!.”
Why do you think that? We have just seen Sheik al-Hilali in Australia blame the women entirely. They tempt men you see. It is their fault, not the men’s. That sounds like an opinion from one Muslim leader that differs from yours. And after all, Muhammed allowed his soldiers to rape their captives. You don’t think that perhaps that contributes to a certain attitude in Muslim men?
shams Says:”i believe in Egyptian identity rather than arab identity,the Egyptian copts must be smarter,they want an Egyptian identity on the corpse of islam,thats a mistake,that way it will never work,people will not change their religion for an ideology,but they can easily believe in an ideology that doesn’t contradict their religion,attacking the others’ religion will make things worse.”
Perhaps. But as Nasir and Arab Socialism proved, ideologies come and go. The Copts are screwed. They will be dhimmis forever unless Islam changes or more Egyptians convert. Neither is likely. The only solution I can see is for the Copts to move to the West and for all Muslims in the West to move to Egypt or some other Muslim country.
“I have no tolerance for those who assault women sexually in any way, and that almost got me kicked out of my school in Boston when I broke the leg of one of my roommates who raped a friend of mine. The incident only resulted in him getting a broken leg because people stoped me before I killed him. And I had the full intention of killing him. Rapists do not deserve to live”
You are my hero for the month. Nicely done.
HeiGou – You said:
“The Copts are screwed. They will be dhimmis forever unless Islam changes or more Egyptians convert. Neither is likely. The only solution I can see is for the Copts to move to the West and for all Muslims in the West to move to Egypt or some other Muslim country.”
The Copts will never leave Egypt and the Copts will never convert to Islam. If you take a look at the history of the Coptic Church you will realize that the Egyptian Christians will never leave or abandon Egypt.
The Coptic Church has persevered in Egypt for 1400 years under oppressive, and sometimes violent, Arab/Islamic rule…you think we’re gonna leave now in the 21st century after all the sacrifices and blood that has been spilled?? Fat chance!
“Egypt is not a homeland that we live in but a homeland that lives in us.”
– H.H. Pope Shenouda III
[…] Rantings of a Sandmonkey » The Eid sexual harassment incident Zum Eid ul-Fitr, dem Fest des Fastenbrechen haben Horden junger Männer in Kairo Jagd auf Frauen gemacht, verschleiert und unverschleiert. Beim Egyptian Sandmonkey findet man Zusammenfassung und Kommentar zu den Ereignissen (tags: blog sandmonkey ägypten kairo islam feiertag Eid_ul-Fitr fastenbrechen sexuelle_gewalt gewalt ramadan eid) […]
[…] Egyptian Sandmonkey recounts an Eid catastrophe in Cairo: It was the first day of Eid, and a new film was opening downtown. Mobs of males gathered trying to get in, but when the show was sold out, they decided they will destroy the box office. After accomplishing that, they went on what can only be described as a sexual frenzy: They ran around grabbing any and every girl in sight, whether a niqabi, a Hijabi or uncovered. Whether Egyptian or foreigner. Even pregnant ones. They grabbed them, molested them, tried to rip their cloths off and rape them, all in front of the police, who didn’t do shit. The good people of downtown tried their best to protect the girls. Shop owners would let the girls in and lock the doors, while the mobs tried to break in. Taxi drivers put the girls in the cars while the mobs were trying to break the glass and grab the girls out. It was a disgusting pandemonium of sexual assaults that lasted for 5 hours from 7:30 PM to 12:30 am, and it turns my stomach just to think about it. […]
That’s why they called the central park thing “wilding” as if it was a college prank, when they should have said “gangs of black men attacking white women in broad daylight”.
Smarty, not all the perps were black, and not all the victims were white. It was after a Puerto Rican Day parade and as far as I can recall most of the victims were Puerto Rican girls, and many of the perps were Puerto Rican guys, too. And I clearly recall a couple black girls being chased but the crowds, on at least one of the videos.
“I just don’t have the slightest clue on how this reformation should take place…”
From the roots up like any reformation movement.
“I say beat them, but not to death, but within an inch of their lives. Beat them so that they never again have proper use of their arms, legs and obviously underdeveloped penises. Beat them until they are confined for the rest of their lives to a dirty spot in the floor drooling, unable to remember who they are, soiling themselves, and this hardly is enough punishment for rapists (and child molesters, for that case).”
Nah … give them sex changes – lower genitals only. Then release them into the general population a max security prison.
HeiGou said:“The Copts are screwed. They will be dhimmis forever unless Islam changes or more Egyptians convert. Neither is likely. The only solution I can see is for the Copts to move to the West and for all Muslims in the West to move to Egypt or some other Muslim country.”
Egypeter Says:”The Copts will never leave Egypt and the Copts will never convert to Islam. If you take a look at the history of the Coptic Church you will realize that the Egyptian Christians will never leave or abandon Egypt.”
I think you may find that Copts are slowly leaving Egypt as we speak. What are the immigration rates? On present trends none of the Middlle Eastern Christian communities have a future although of course it will take longer in Egypt than in Syria.
Egypeter Says:”The Coptic Church has persevered in Egypt for 1400 years under oppressive, and sometimes violent, Arab/Islamic rule…you think we’re gonna leave now in the 21st century after all the sacrifices and blood that has been spilled?? Fat chance!”
They did not have a choice before and after all we are not talking about what the Copts as a whole do but what individuals do. A Copt goes to America to study and is offered a job in LA. Does he stay? Well …. perhaps even if he plans to go back later. A Copt is beaten up on the street and so thinks again about joining his cousin in Munich. Does he go? Multiply that a million times. It is easy to be brave for Copts as a whole, but as individuals?
It is damn lucky that no Copt girl wandered into that crowd and was recognised as such. Or if they did I haven’t heard about it.
HeiGou – Don’t get me wrong. After all, I’m the son of an immigrant Copt. And I’m also aware that most middle east immigrants to the U.S., I think some crazy percentage like 80%, are Christian. Yes, 80% of all Arab-speaking Americans in the U.S. are Christian. And these are people coming from minority communities to begin with. So, yes, the whole outlook for non-muslims in the middle east is pretty miserable. I’m aware of the statistics in countries like Palestine and Iraq too. Not good.
But you said:
“The only solution I can see is for the Copts to move to the West and for all Muslims in the West to move to Egypt or some other Muslim country.”
I’m sure you weren’t totally serious but I see your point. A lot have. It’s just that we can’t pick up our poor, our Churches and Monastaries and the Nile to New Jersey or L.A.. But to your point, the Coptic diaspora has grown immensely over the past several decades in the U.S, Canada and Australia. Immigration was non-existant back when Egypt was worth living in (before and shortly after the Reveloution). Then Nasser came to power and began destroying Egyptian identity with his Pan-Arabism vision. He basically sacrificed our Egyptian identity, which mind you, has been around for, oh, only about 5000 years and replaced with this “Arab” thing of his all to serve HIS political agenda. Of course all her cared about was uniting the Arab-speaking world against the Jooooz, even at the expense of the Egyptian people. And look where it got him and Egypt and the rest of the Arab world. Jack squat! So the Arabization of Egypt continued and ultimately the Jewish community left, the Greek community left and the Armenian community left/got kicked out. There goes multi-culturalism and plurarlism. Of course their stake in Egypt wasn’t the same as the Copts but now, with the situation worsening year by year and globalization, when the opportunity presents itself the educated, progressive, talented cream of Egypt (Copts and Muslims) leave to build a better future for themselves. My dad did it and I thank sweet Jesus he did! And the ‘brain drain’ of Egypt continues until complete and total Wahabbism/ignorance dominates the country.
Nice picture, right?
Egypeter, ya 3ammi a7sanlak khaleek fi Amreeka. il 3aalam il 3arabi baz khalas. Enjoy Chicago instead.
I was just talking to my mom today about me going back to Sudan. I said as long as that shithead Bashir is in power I’m never going back to settle there unless there’s some light of transition towards democracy. It’s gonna be hard to surive there though. I’m too westernized and all my Sudanese friends are more or less Westernized also… Nontheless there’s something about Sudn and Sudanese people that I’ll always love.
2 or 3 years from now, I guess I’m gonna end up in Canada. Post graduate studies. Lovely country and affordable education. London School of Economics would be nice but way too expensive.
Oh ya and SM you’re on LGF!!!
I hear ya Drima 🙂
Hmmm. I guess I am confused at the fact that you seem to be confused. I think the extent of what happened is surprising, but the fact that it *did* happen is not.
Put these rapists and the police that did nothing in the prison in Marion, Illinois, USA, where the meanest, nastiest criminals are locked up. These rapists will find out what it’s like to be “somebody’s b_tch” and get several bangs in the bum.
Why is this not a hoax? I cannot read Arabic, so all of those links could be to reicpes for bread pudding for all I know.
TFI
[…] What is the connection between the events that took place in Egypt on the first day of Eid and the uncovered meat vs. cats’ theory? What makes hundreds of men (although I can’t and won’t describe them as men, but that’s how they are classified anatomically and genetically) turn into a herd of bulls in heat? What makes them unite under a shameful action and charge forward without any consideration to religion, morals, culture or tradition? […]
Drima, I thought about Canada, too. Most of Canada is beautiful, and I believe that in most places diversity is accepted, which is good.
“Why is this not a hoax? I cannot read Arabic, so all of those links could be to reicpes for bread pudding for all I know.” LOL!
Well, to answer your question, unfortunately not. Many of the commenters here read Arabic and they’d be the first to say so.
Are you really a FRIENDly Infidel? Not the infamous FIENDly Infidel, right? 🙂
Re: The Central Park “wilding” case of 1989 in New York, in which you claim police stood by and did nothing. You are conflating this incident with another incident which took place over a decade later, The Puerto Rican Day Parade in New York, in which police DID stand by and basically chuckle while groups of males molested women. Sixteen young men ultimately confessed to the Central Park crime, of which one particular woman was the victim, raped repeatedly and beaten within an inch of her life, and several of the sixteen arrested served prison time, although there was no DNA match. Some years later, the actual perpetrators of this crime stepped forward and confessed, and those arrested earlier were set free. But the police did NOT stand by and do nothing in the Central Park incident
The next likely rebellion in Egypt will likely be led by Muslim Brotherhood types..and then it will get worse than it is.
People can’t stand up too clearly or they get cut down…but gradually and careful organization, protest, getting word out…
Egypt gets a good deal of cash from Uncle Sam…connecting with women’s groups and other such group might help get this stuff to the attention of congress…that might be the safest pressure point.
Howie, I see your point. There is no point in getting oneself killed while trying to make a positive change. Perhaps pressure from women’s groups would help–at least increase awareness of the issue, and perhaps inspire women to parent their sons to be more sensitive and respectful.
The world is in a hell of a state, isn’t it?
the cash is redirected to swiss banks,for an ever-lasting growing account number of our great dictators.god bless their brain,amen!
Egypeter and Drima-
I hear you guys too.
You know what … these men aren’t going to change, and I doubt all the talking and wrist slapping these bastards are likely to receive is going to do shit, In a part of the world where misogyny is reinforced both religiously and culturally, whether by some imam or some goat fucking mad mullah , the filth these assholes preach is exactly what the mob pricks want to hear, they want to believe women are the evil temptresses, they want to hear when a Muslim man rapes a woman that it is of no fault of their own, and above all they know they can get away with this shit with little or no consequence, the only thing that surprises me is the lack of the ‘blame the west for all its immoral values for corrupting the egyptian youth’ to explain the reason these egyptians acted like rabid chimps. The police force didn’t do anything because they are probably of like minded ilk and attend the same mosques and listen to the same preachers.
If any change is going to happen it will have to be with the women, although it depends on how optimistic or pessimistic you are.
Women should stand and say they are not going to stand for this crap anymore, and get a real feminist movement going, if women’s rights in the middle east are going to improve then women are going to have to get radical about it, men as a collective may run the country but women as a collective is a force to be reckoned with.
As optimistic as the above sounds, the pessimist that I am at heart is more likely to believe this whole thing will probably just blow over with no lessons learned and no major changes happening.
As a last resort it looks like women are eventually going to gear up towards arming themselves, which ironically is where the jilbab actually has a use. A woman can hide a lot of sharp things under that gown, what better way to make a point that a mans sexual attention is unwanted then a shiv to the liver (excuse the pun).
Oh a quick trip to fantasy land.
Have all the pricks rounded up and put in a large cage, then systematically take each man and in front of all prisoners, peel off ten layers of skin on the penis and ball sac and then season the raw meat with lemon juice and rub down with rock salt and fry in boiling oil till black and shrivelled. And watch the rest of the prisoners squirm as they wait for their inevitable fate, and to finish off gouge out the eyes cut off the nose and slice of the ears and brand the word perv on their foreheads.
Hmmmm We could start a group–something similar to Doctors Without Borders—we could be “Values Without Borders” and start a movement toward developing a more caring, patient, respectful world. I suspect we would be preaching to the choir though.
It is so disgusting that so many of us cannot live in the lands that we love because of corrupt government, radical, crazy people, and actual physical danger. That is sad.
good dish! some amateurs would add the penis after the sliced ears,that’s a mistake…..!
The rampage is just a symptom, and not the cause. People all over are going on crazy rampages when they don’t get what they want. Sure, the majority of them aren’t running around raping random women on the street, isn’t limited to Egypt, and certainly isn’t limited to Islamics. The rampage in Cairo is an extreme example of what’s happening all around us in Egypt, and as far away from there as the United States. The cause is ‘me’, ‘what I want’, and ‘my ego’ in every case. I watch people every week just go absolutely on the verge of physical violence, and sometimes all the way into physical violence on others when they simply do not get what they want. It comes from an overinflated sense of self and entitlement.
Sure, the extreme of people raping someone in the street and going ballistic on someone across a counter are different, the root cause is the same. In either case the person needs a solid object firmly struck across the back of their head, but that will never come to pass. It will get worse before it gets better.
Thank you, Sandy.
I am an American, a professed Christian, but I have many Moslem friends and have dated Moslem women. All the Moslems I count as friends are moderates and are opposed to the fanatics — like that inexcusable, arrogant al-Hilali.
What became of the hadith that Khadifa was the first Moslem? What became of the respect accorded Aisha?
I like you, Sandy, and I like your brand of activism. Please break a rapist’s leg for me. That activism is what is missing from the moderate Moslem community worldwide (except Morocco). The moderates seem cowed by the fanatics.
Look, boys and girls, the time for liberal, PC, everybody-play-nice politics is over. These crazies do not want to convert us; they do not want to rule us; they want to kill us. The ONLY defense is to kill them first. Forget reeducation. It ain’t gonna happen.
Real simple. We pit an infantryman with an M16 against a half-trained crazy jihadist with an AK47, the one who draws first wins. We need to ask for a new deal and play a new game of poker. “I’ll see your suicide bomber and raise you 10 megatons.” Al-Qaeda and the Taliban want to hide in Tora Bora? Nuke Tora Bora. Pakistan can’t police the jihadist in their outer provinces? We carpet bomb their villages. Iran elects a madman president who preaches jihad against us? We turn Teheran into a radioactive green glass parking lot.
You think I’m exaggerating? You are wrong. I am deadly serious. Before the Shah was deposed and the Iranians raised an Islamic republic (there’s an oxymoron), I never heard of such outrageous behavior in Egypt. (I have great respect for Egyptian culture. Half of all human history is Egyptian history. Every geometric accomplishment for which the Greeks took credit, they stole from the Egyptians. Can’t understand why Egyptians would want to follow these uncivilized late-comer Arabs.) If you can police your crazies like the Moroccans and the Tunisians and the Turks, we will leave you alone. But if you get into the habit of exporting crazy like Iran, be prepared ’cause one day your sky will turn a brilliant white and nothing will grow in the land for 10,000 years.
PS All you folks who think Islam cannot be extinguished — what gods did the Carthiginians worship?
[…] To see how women are treated back in his old country, have a read of this truely sickening story on Egyptian blogger Sandmonkey’s site: The story is as follows for the those of you who didn’t hear about it: It was the first day of Eid, and a new film was opening downtown. Mobs of males gatherd trying to get in, but when the show was sold out, they decided they will destroy the box office. After accomplishing that, they went on what can only be described as a sexual frenxy: They ran around grabbing any and every girl in sight, whether a niqabi, a Hijabi or uncoverd. Whether egyptian or foreigner. Even pregnant ones. They grabbed them, molested them, tried to rip their cloths off and rape them, all in front of the police, who didn’t do shit. The good people of downtown tried their best to protect the girls. Shop owners would let the girls in and lock the doors, while the mobs tried to break in. Taxi drivers put the girls in the cars while the mobs were trying to break the glass and grab the girls out. It was a disgusting pandamonium of sexual assaults that lasted for 5 houres from 7:30 PM to 12:30 am, and it turns my stomach just to think about it. […]
antares @ 108, good to hear
i wonder if you have seen this site faithfreedom.org There is lots of interesting stuff on it esp. the article why i left islam
Is just makes me sick… Once Ramadan was over,did all of them (the mob) had neon signs blinking in their heads that says “Yes! Time to hunt some flesh!”
This reminds me of a similar incident that happened in Singapore. I heard from my friend. This girl was walking along with her boyfriend when out of no where a huge mob of Indian foreign workers surrounded her. They were ready to molest her.
Her boyfriend was separated from by mod. But for a short while cause the boyfriend fought through the mob and dragged her out just in time.
What is the world coming too…
Drima @ The SudaneseThinker Says:”I was just talking to my mom today about me going back to Sudan. I said as long as that shithead Bashir is in power I’m never going back to settle there unless there’s some light of transition towards democracy. It’s gonna be hard to surive there though. I’m too westernized and all my Sudanese friends are more or less Westernized also… Nontheless there’s something about Sudn and Sudanese people that I’ll always love.”
The problem is that if all the Westernised Sudanese move to the West, there will never be a transition in Sudan to something else. How can there be a transition to democracy if you and everyone like you is in North America?
Drima @ The SudaneseThinker Says:”2 or 3 years from now, I guess I’m gonna end up in Canada. Post graduate studies. Lovely country and affordable education. London School of Economics would be nice but way too expensive.”
I’d apply soon. Muslim immigration to the West is getting harder and harder all the time. I can see a time when you won’t be allowed to even move to London to study much less immigrate. After all, why would Canadians want to import this sort of culture when they can have Chinese people instead? All over the world people are building fences and keeping as many young Muslim men on the other side as possible. That is true in India and Israel, Thailand and Saudi Arabia – and even more so within Muslim countries. It is the wave of the future.
hi thank you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAFtE9ozk_0
this is really sick really really sick
Update on the Hilali incident
I’ve received a Press Statement from al Hilaly re his comments on uncovered meat and a response from the United Muslim Women’s Association.
I’ve posted them both on my blog for those who are interested in seeing just how this moron is trying to justify himself and the response from the enablers (ie Muslim women’s organisations who enable oppression and violence against women by staying silent)
Drima, my nephew is a student in Canada at UBC. I believe that he has the option of remaining and obtaining Canadian citizenship after he finishes. Apply!!
I second the idea that people need to stop leaving their country and need to start defending their own from their extemists. If you run away, you have NO RIGHT to complain.
Regarding the riots, forsoothsayer actually deleted my comment about using guns in self defence!!! See, as long as there are cowards, as long as there are idiot liberals who cannot distinguish between attack and defense, the bad guys will get to do what they want. People must be willing to stand up for what is right, and if gov’t will not punish the offenders, society needs “cowboys” willing to do it.
Today’s tale!
“after 6 hours ‘questioning’ the ‘brown-skinned’ fellow refused to cooperate,’look,we have caught you red-handed boarding the plane with a liquid hidden in your luggage,our tests assured the contents are corrosive,and under the right condition,explosive,got it from a coca cola dispenser,huh,do you think we are totally stupid?’
second investigator:’the cctv images has shown the guy gettin’ the liquid from the coca cola dispenser near the airport entry gate,this is shockingly predictable,and predictably shocking!,our super computer estimate the guy to be destined to that high-tech cave in the orange pajamas land ,they must have developed some sort of fertilizers to be added to our tooth dissolving substances,making them corrosive,and under the right conditions,explosive,we gotta inform higher authorities in our “fatland’,orange pajamas land develop liquids of mass destruction”
the presidential emergency room: the president” our picture of being the good guys got already tarnished,our sales of junk food and tooth dissolving liquids are going down,what are we gonna do?”
first advisor:’what about admitting you to a hospital,telling people that you have a terminal disease?”
another advisor:”that will not work,they have already tried that in Israel,what about telling people that you will resign,devouting your life to refute the evil-axis ideology based on a god’s message that came to you while you were snoozing?”…..”…good one….but…no…I can’t resign…” …”why not….you are not of charge anyways!”
an economic advisor “what about a ‘freedomisation kit’ ‘american spelling used for accuracy ‘composed of dehydrated coke and junk food”?’
the phone rang “hello,the president,whats up?’
“mr president,this is very important,orange pajams land develop liquids of mass destruction”…the president” guys guys, I found it!”…”what are we gonna do?”
the president addressing the press “…countries like this,and people like those never complied to the will of the “free world”,never deserve mercy,we warned them,but didn’t work,we sent our inspectors and they insisted,’no coopertaion’,we can’t wait for the certain evident that may come upon us as clouds full of their corrosive liquids,..that is to say…liquids of mass destruction’
president to advisors” are you sure this is gonna work,I got confused by all of our lies ,that im afraid I will tell the truth one day by mistake”
second advisor” we just need to back up the file,I have surfed the internet and found an Egyptian blog for a sandmonkey,he talked about some guys sexually harassed girls ,I told you,those people are pigs!’
main stream media news:comment no.109 in this blog is being read!
the media poll up the fatland people’s opinion in war,one said” If you can police your crazies like the Moroccans and the Tunisians and the Turks, we will leave you alone. But if you get into the habit of exporting crazy like Iran, be prepared ’cause one day your sky will turn a brilliant white and nothing will grow in the land for 10,000 years.”
Thanx to two british guys fred and dennis,this work was almost their efforts
This is a crazy world,sick world!
Ok,so,muslims “must die” because some crazy slimy gangsters were involved in a sexual assault,muslim preachers teach their students of “how to rape a woman in the streets”,iran is bleedin’ involved in a sexual assault in Egypt,and muslim-world must be punished by a nuclear thing,oh lordy lordy,what kind of people are those>?,lets start off with some home truths,sexual assaults are even homicidal rates are more in the west,esp.in the “new world,i.e north America and Australia,don’t come to us to preach ,I would reject any act that is against human values,but most of the comments here are disastrous!,I’ll quote from my source which is human security report ,you can check the link below:
http://www.humansecurityreport.info/background/Newman_Homicide_and_Rape.pdf
I’ll quote: “However, the most striking finding is that of the rape rate for the New World
which is overall higher than any other region. This finding is consistent with that
reported in the UN Global Report. It also holds even if we use the broader
definition of sex offences and include the additional years from 1959-1976
(Figure 7). Thus, it is likely not a function of the differing definition of rape or sex
offences in the new world countries. It may, however, indicate one or both of two
possibilities: that rape is a more highly reported crime in those countries than in
other countries of the world, or that the true rape rate in these countries is in fact
higher than other regions. Since in many respects countries of the new world are
similar economically and perhaps culturally to those of Western Europe, it is
highly likely that the rape rates of the New World do, to some degree, reflect
higher true rates of rape. This finding is also supported by the International Crime
Victimization Surveys
Here in America sex is used by the media to exploit consumers – in advertising sex sells, becuase every one wants it. We are visually exposed to it at a young age, men and women are allowed to dress as they see fit as long as the extremities are covered. Sex education occurs at a relatively young age in public schools. The result of this sexual freedom and lack of repression sometimes results in voluntary sexual exploitation yes, but our men are not repressed and prone to innapropriate behavour such as rape and blatant groping as soon as they see an opportunity – they don’t usually snap like we see with this crowd of men in the story. It happens, but there are prosecutions.
I blame religious, and societal repression of men/women and their sexuality.
This isn’t an Islamic problem alone. Catholic repressive sexual doctrine results in the same thing. They make sex something to be hidden and ashamed of – it’s secrecy and shame allows molestation from the clergy – they make victims afraid to talk! Also, ever hear of the cliche’ about Catholic School Girls? They are notoriously promescious! The understood reason is that they are so sexually repressed by parents and and their Catholic schools, that as soon as they get the chance they unleash their sexuality and are having uninhibited sex like crazy!!!
Start being honest about sexuality, encourgae people to wait for marriage, but also offer sex education and condoms to teenagers and adults and for God sake, don’t make it something shamefull. be honest and open about it in society and step in to the 21st century. Do this and not only will you have a revolution in your society for equality, you’ll stop giving the extremists in the United States an excuse to exploit Arabs and their countries natural resources through fear and war.
There’s nothing the George Bush’s of the world like better than religious extremism – it gives them an excuse to wage their wars and your own Mullahs the ammunition they need to repress you even more.
Best Regards,
– Male 39, California.
Disgusting. This is a national shame. The only thing good that comes out of all this is the reaction of the taxi drivers, shop owners and blog owners.
I am honestly sorry that I wasn’t there to do something against that horde of animals. I have a sword and I assure you that I would use it in such a situation – a thousand times if necessary.
shams Says:”Ok,so,muslims “must die” because some crazy slimy gangsters were involved in a sexual assault,muslim preachers teach their students of “how to rape a woman in the streets”,iran is bleedin’ involved in a sexual assault in Egypt,and muslim-world must be punished by a nuclear thing,oh lordy lordy,what kind of people are those>?”
I don’t think anyone, or at least anyone of any importance is saying that. Why do you claim they are? People are going to die because too many Muslims have embraced violence and extremism of which all those examples are small examples. That is their fault, and your fault, not my fault.
shams Says:”lets start off with some home truths,sexual assaults are even homicidal rates are more in the west,esp.in the “new world,i.e north America and Australia,don’t come to us to preach”
That is not what your source claims at all. It says, clearly, the developed world, including the New World has relatively low homicide rates. There is also the slight problem of reporting in that few countries report homicides equally.
shams Says:”I would reject any act that is against human values,but most of the comments here are disastrous!,I’ll quote from my source which is human security report ,you can check the link below:
http://www.humansecurityreport.info/background/Newman_Homicide_and_Rape.pdf
I’ll quote: “However, the most striking finding is that of the rape rate for the New World which is overall higher than any other region. This finding is consistent with that reported in the UN Global Report. It also holds even if we use the broader definition of sex offences and include the additional years from 1959-1976 (Figure 7). Thus, it is likely not a function of the differing definition of rape or sex offences in the new world countries. It may, however, indicate one or both of two possibilities: that rape is a more highly reported crime in those countries than in other countries of the world, or that the true rape rate in these countries is in fact higher than other regions. Since in many respects countries of the new world are similar economically and perhaps culturally to those of Western Europe, it is highly likely that the rape rates of the New World do, to some degree, reflect higher true rates of rape. This finding is also supported by the International Crime Victimization Surveys”
That is only compared to Western Europe. As it also says many Third World countries simply do not report rapes. Which applies to the Middle East. It says that many *normal* *behaviours* in the Third World would be rapes in the West – marital rape is not a crime in Islam.
Remember the WHO also says that a third of Bangladeshi women report their first sexual experience was “forced” so I think we can come here and preach all we want. We don’t kill womem when they are raped after all. You have a problem. The West does too but it is much smaller.
[…] But you won’t read about it in the newspapers. Incredibly disturbing and infuriating. via. […]
Only an idiot would not accept that rape is more commonly reported in the west, as in Muslim countries, if a woman charges rape, and cannot produce 4 male muslim witnesses, SHE gets punished, and her brother or father may kill her!!!
In the US, we would call those 4 male witnesses “accomplices”.
Please don’t ignore the fact that a huge % of rapes in Western Europe are committed by muslim immigrants. In Norway, more than half.
People neet to get real. The west can only turn the other cheek to islamic animals for so long, sooner or later it will be kill or be killed. Muslims who are not barbaric animals need to grow some spine and deal with the freaks in their religion, and liberal westerners need to grow a spine and stop making excuses for the animals.
[…] http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/10/30/the-eid-sexual-harassment-incident/ […]
All Muslims cannot be blamed for the actions of others. That is not fair or reasonable.
As to staying and trying to make changes within one’s own country, there is just so much one person can do. I frankly believe that a person’s first responsibility is to himself or herself—to try to build a good life and not be part of the problem. I think that is enough.
HeiGou Says:
That is only compared to Western Europe. As it also says many Third World countries simply do not report rapes. Which applies to the Middle East. It says that many *normal* *behaviours* in the Third World would be rapes in the West – marital rape is not a crime in Islam.
you are a smarty panty,aren’t you? this is the most pitiful trial i have ever seen,please try again harder.,you can check by yourself the figures in the link i provided for you,and you can see “THE RATE OF RAPE PER MASS OF POPULATION” in all countries,its the highest in the western europe and in the new world than any other country,you claim its not reported in the so called “thrid world” the report is giving u the reply,i’ll quote”It may, however, indicate one or both of two possibilities: that rape is a more highly reported crime in those countries than in other countries of the world, or that the true rape rate in these countries is in fact higher than other regions. Since in many respects countries of the new world are similar economically and perhaps culturally to those of Western Europe, it is highly likely that the rape rates of the New World do, to some degree, reflect higher true rates of rape. This finding is also supported by the International Crime Victimization Surveys”
HeiGou Says:”I don’t think anyone, or at least anyone of any importance is saying that. Why do you claim they are? People are going to die because too many Muslims have embraced violence and extremism of which all those examples are small examples. That is their fault, and your fault, not my fault.
i guess the higher rates of rape in the USA is your fault either,i guess the millions who dies in vietnam and the victims of the nuclear bombing of japan,all those victims of your country’s violence are your fault,not my fault!.
HeiGou says:”Remember the WHO also says that a third of Bangladeshi women report their first sexual experience was “forced” so I think we can come here and preach all we want. We don’t kill womem when they are raped after all. You have a problem. The West does too but it is much smaller.” well,i’m not from bangladesh i’m Egyptian,not my business!,are you responsible for the genocide in rowanda cause those who comitted this were christians?
smarty says:Smarty Says:
November 1st, 2006 at 9:46 pm
Only an idiot would not accept that rape is more commonly reported in the west, as in Muslim countries, if a woman charges rape, and cannot produce 4 male muslim witnesses, SHE gets punished, and her brother or father may kill her!!!
you are talking nonsense,smarty!,i guess ur confused,you have never been in Egypt,you made me lough at what you said!in Egypt the DNA analysis of the semen “which stays upto 72 hours in the vagina after a sexual intercourse,i have studied that in forensic medicine”,the DNA analysis is done by the police and can assure the identity of the rapist without 4 witnesses or any of your nonsense,this is clearly stated in the Egyptian law that the DNA analysis can be used whenever the court sees it fit to identify,or to exclude a suspect.
the 4 witnesses in the islamic jurisprudence is something else,it states that :inorder to punish a man or a woman for committing adultery then they must have been seen by four witnesses,which is something impossible and the law prevents mainly prostitution among in the public places and the law is not applied in Egypt which law is maily french.
i would agree so much with Rand,comment#120,and with Lynne,comment #126,from a strategic point of view,people like HeiGou are Bin Laden’s best friends.
[…] h/t: Clayton Cramer and Sandmonkey […]
[…] Sandmonkey has a more complete account of the events. He attributes what happened as being sanctioned by the police and a complicit press. Apparently al-Jazeera was present and had footage of the assaults but “were forbidden to air it at the request of the egyptian authorities”. But the cat was let out of the bag (gawd, bad turn of phrase considering Hilali-gate) when as “part of a fluffy segment on Mona Al Shazly show talking about the Ramadan TV shows, … the girl’s first response to the question was: “What Television shows do you want to discuss, when egyptian girls are assaulted on the streets of Cairo while the police watched and did nothing?” […]
It is encouraging to hear the voice of true chivary among all the madness. Alas, your attitude does not appear to be widespread.
shams Says:”you are a smarty panty,aren’t you? this is the most pitiful trial i have ever seen,please try again harder.,you can check by yourself the figures in the link i provided for you,and you can see “THE RATE OF RAPE PER MASS OF POPULATION” in all countries,its the highest in the western europe and in the new world than any other country,”
As your own source makes clear, the highest *reported* rate of rapes takes place in the West. But as your own source makes clear, as I said before, the developed world clearly does not report rapes and many normal behaviours which would be rapes in the West are not elsewhere.
And the proof is simply in how people behave. Western women go out late at night on their own. They drink too much. They walk home alone. They are rarely attacked. Most Muslim women are not allowed to even come close to those things – read Sandmonkey’s story of the mall in Jordan that only lets in men if they are accompanied by women. Rape is your problem, not ours. Or at least not so much. Calling me names and behaving like a child won’t change that.
shams Says:”i guess the higher rates of rape in the USA is your fault either,i guess the millions who dies in vietnam and the victims of the nuclear bombing of japan,all those victims of your country’s violence are your fault,not my fault!.”
Do you think this sort of emotive avoidance of the issue is going to help your argument? I assure you the millions who died in Vietnam are not your fault.
shams Says:”well,i’m not from bangladesh i’m Egyptian,not my business!,are you responsible for the genocide in rowanda cause those who comitted this were christians?”
What makes you think I am a Christian? I agree you are not responsible for rapes in Bangladesh – although there is no reason to think Egypt is much different – but it does indicate a problem with the sources. Bangladesh has a very low reporting rate for rape even though we know through interviews that a lot of women are raped. There is no reason to think Egypt is any different.
shams Says:”people like HeiGou are Bin Laden’s best friends.”
I don’t provide him with shelter and excuses. I don’t think there is any doubt about who tolerates OBL around here.
Heigou,it seems you don’t get what i want to say by any means,ok,this is going to be my last comment on this,obviously we will not have one eye on things,but i see there is a problem about you which is your tendency to generalize upon things,i’ll not be able to correct this,back to the report,it says clearly that there can be two reasons for increased rates of rape in the new world,the first reason is that rape crimes are more reported in the west than in other countries of the world,the second reason is THAT TRUE RAPE IN these countries is IN FACT higher than other regions,THE REPORT SUPPORTS THE SECOND REASON ,saying “it is highly likely that the rape rates of the New World do, to some degree, reflect higher true rates of rape. This finding is also supported by the International Crime Victimization Surveys”
you keep overlooking the second point,and you keep stressing the first point though the second point is more supported by the report,thats your problem,you overlook what you don’t want,you are not being objective,thats not my problem.
you say “the proof is how people behave”,ok,the way people behave in your place is looking normal to you,and the way people behave in my place is normal to me,actually men can’t walk drunk in Egypt,not only women,because this is socially not acceptable,but i remember to happen,a welsh girl girlfriend,who came to Egypt and said things are much better than what she thought she could drive to anywhere she wanted alone ,she felt safe to go shopping alone,and i remember to happen,a canadian woman whom i met ,she has just been in Egypt,when i asked her “how did you find things there”? she said “i didn’t want to come back!”,i wondered”why,you fell in love with Ramsis the second”,she loughed and said,no,because of people,i loved the people.i had all my education in Egypt ,more than 55% of my colleagues were females,when we were in the college,we used to stay some days to a late time may be till 8 pm in the college for lab. tutorials,and it doesn’t need a rocket scientist to know that many of those girls will travel alone ,many of them are from countrysides,they would travel a long distance alone and late.so,obviously you have never been in Egypt,stop talking about something you don’t know about ,no place in this world can be defined as a perfect place,no people are the perfect people,we have problems on our side,that doesn’t make us evil and devils,we are trying to correct,the second world war has brought alot to that world,millions were killed,economy was destroyed,people lost their faith ,morals and values came to a lower rank,aristocracy became meaningless,and despair was elsewhere,the whole world is still suffering the consequences of this,add to that the radical islamists and the dictators of the middle east who destroyed all of people’s hopes,what do you expect? ,yes we have a problem,a problem of dictatorship,a problem of occupation that sucked away our resources,britain stole 200 billion dollars of the Egyptian gold stock during occupation,a problem of radical islamists.we have all of those problems,but that doesn’t make us bad or evil,alot of true good men are around.
you see that i “avoid the main issue”.,who said that? i just judged you by the same of your logic,you said “People are going to die because too many Muslims have embraced violence and extremism of which all those examples are small examples. That is their fault, and your fault, not my fault.”
you generalized,and i generalize upon you in a similar manner,if north korea or the forecoming chinese-russian alliance blow you up by a nuclear bomb then do you think the innocent americans will deserve to die ? if i used ur logic the answer is simply yes,look at what you did in vietnam or iraq,look how you supported the murders of women and children in lebanon,that makes you guilty and you all deserve to die,but i don’t use that logic that is against any human values,no-one deserve to die for the others’ faults,you see the whole world is on the hover of another world war,a third war that will blow up the remnants of human values,lets not be stupid,lets support the reasonable guys on any side,lets not corrupt our planet once again,life is so short for hatred,and nothing in this world deserve sparing the life of an innocent.
you say”What makes you think I am a Christian? I agree you are not responsible for rapes in Bangladesh – although there is no reason to think Egypt is much different ” i’ll not respond to that ,you obviously have never been neither to bangladesh nor to egypt,you live in a closed circle that encompass you,you probably don’t know who is in the next door to you.
shams Says:”people like HeiGou are Bin Laden’s best friends.”
I don’t provide him with shelter and excuses. I don’t think there is any doubt about who tolerates OBL around here.
ok,let me ask you one question,what do you think the bin laden’s fuel?.,its hatred,creating more hatred will back up the islamists on his side,and will back up the enemies on the other side,if you have a neighbour,and you came one day yelling and warning him “look,fix that fence of your garden,or i’ll kill ya by this ak47 assault riffle of mine”,may be he will try to fix the fence,but the sure thing is that he will hurry up getting an m16 piece ,tension creates more tension ,if bin laden read what you typed he would get his fans saying “look,thats how the west think of us.what are you gonna do?”
just read those words of mine,and think of it,may be its right,may be not,may be one day we will come to understand each other,may be not,may be ,one day human beings will find a better meaning of their life.hopefully they may do that before the chance has gone,we can get along by exchanging opinions and by understanding each others’ culture,bombs and guns can by no means make things better,don’t prejudice people,try to listen to the other’s point of view,”i don’t care whats you race or color or nationality as long as you are nice”,and,ah,don’t watch too much fox news!
shams Says:”the first reason is that rape crimes are more reported in the west than in other countries of the world,the second reason is THAT TRUE RAPE IN these countries is IN FACT higher than other regions”
TRUE RAPE? You can see the problem with your approach in that none of these Eid assaults appear to have been reported in Egypt. Therefore, according to the Egyptian government, they did not occur. Do you agree with that? Do you think that perhaps Egypt has a problem with reporting?
shams Says:”THE REPORT SUPPORTS THE SECOND REASON ,saying “it is highly likely that the rape rates of the New World do, to some degree, reflect higher true rates of rape. This finding is also supported by the International Crime Victimization Surveys””
Except that, last I looked, seemed to refer to a comparison with Western Europe, not the Muslim world. So it is irrelevant.
shams Says:”ok,the way people behave in your place is looking normal to you,and the way people behave in my place is normal to me,actually men can’t walk drunk in Egypt,not only women,because this is socially not acceptable”
It is not socially acceptable to me in either place and I assure you I do not think it is normal. And it would probably be dangerous for men to walk alone late at night in Egypt as well.
shams Says:”no place in this world can be defined as a perfect place,no people are the perfect people”
No one is claiming anyone is. Just that rape is not a special Western problem.
shams Says:”we have problems on our side,that doesn’t make us evil and devils,we are trying to correct,the second world war has brought alot to that world,millions were killed,economy was destroyed,people lost their faith ,morals and values came to a lower rank,aristocracy became meaningless, and despair was elsewhere,the whole world is still suffering the consequences of this,add to that the radical islamists and the dictators of the middle east who destroyed all of people’s hopes,what do you expect?”
Sorry but you’re blaming all your problems on WW2 which was over 50 years ago? Or perhaps you mean the Jews and the creation of Israel? I have mildly strong opinions on dictators and Islamists but another thing is certain – that is not my fault either.
shams Says:”britain stole 200 billion dollars of the Egyptian gold stock during occupation”
Actually the real problem is the paranoid insistence on blaming other people rather than taking ownership of your own problems. The British made Egypt richer. They did not steal anything.
shams Says:”i generalize upon you in a similar manner,if north korea or the forecoming chinese-russian alliance blow you up by a nuclear bomb then do you think the innocent americans will deserve to die ?”
How is that in any way related to what I said? Americans have no control over the insane people in China or North Korea. Egyptians have allowed dictatorship to flourish and Islamists to run riot. If neither had a fertile field they would not exist. Yet democracy is wasted on stony ground while the extremists find fertile soil in Egypt. That is not my fault but the fault of the Egyptians as a whole. If the North Koreans blow themselves up then that is the fault of the North Koreans for allowing it. If Egyptians blow other Egyptians up with suicide bombs, that too is their fault, in some small way, not mine.
shams Says:”if i used ur logic the answer is simply yes,look at what you did in vietnam or iraq,look how you supported the murders of women and children in lebanon,that makes you guilty and you all deserve to die”
That bears no resemblance to my views at all.
shams Says:”ok,let me ask you one question,what do you think the bin laden’s fuel?.,its hatred,creating more hatred will back up the islamists on his side, and will back up the enemies on the other side,if you have a neighbour,and you came one day yelling and warning him “look,fix that fence of your garden,or i’ll kill ya by this ak47 assault riffle of mine”,may be he will try to fix the fence,but the sure thing is that he will hurry up getting an m16 piece ,tension creates more tension ,if bin laden read what you typed he would get his fans saying “look,thats how the west think of us.what are you gonna do?””
I agree that OBL’s fuel is hatred but that hatred has always existed in Muslim society for the kafirs. No Muslim state has ever allied itself with a non-Muslim state in genuine friendship. The relationship between, say, Britain and the US is non-existant in the Muslim world and always has been. I don’t think that defending ourselves will create more hatred because as much hatred as can exist, exists already. I would hope that OBL and his minions do read what I write because I think large parts of the Muslim world are sterile. They have not produced much in the way of original thought for a long time. Look at the Muslim rejection of evolution which consists entirely of ripping off Christian rejectors of evolution. They can’t even think of their own reasons for not believing it! In the same way it has been the support by the West of Islam and Islamists that has given them their ammunition and ideology. Muslims have no original arguments in favor of what they do. They borrow from Orientalists which is why they go on about Spain so much. It is Western tolerance that tells Bin Laden and his friends that 1. Islam is perfect and 2. the West is weak. If he was confronted by real hatred then he would have to think as would his underlings.
shams Says:”just read those words of mine,and think of it,may be its right,may be not,may be one day we will come to understand each other,may be not,may be ,one day human beings will find a better meaning of their life.hopefully they may do that before the chance has gone,we can get along by exchanging opinions and by understanding each others’ culture,bombs and guns can by no means make things better,don’t prejudice people,try to listen to the other’s point of view,”i don’t care whats you race or color or nationality as long as you are nice”,and,ah,don’t watch too much fox news!”
By all means. But that does not require, and cannot require, me to lie about the state of the Muslim world. Tolerance and peace can only be based on truth and justice. And they have to be mutual. They are not created by us all pretending there is nothing wrong with the Muslim world, but by us all looking at the problems, recognising them, fixing them and moving on. Denying rape does not prevent it you know.
Reading this actually made me think about how similar my hispanic mindset is to what you described. I guess you guys gave us that when you were chilling in Spain for all that time. Interesting..
i’m sure if i’ll go on this conversation will be endless,but you don’t understand me at all.i have been through the documents of the “grand thieft” of the Egyptian gold stock,denying that proves that you are ignorant of that thing at all and keep talking about things you don’t know about,”the documents can be shown to anyone in the british middle east archive,foreign ministery”..,still you claim britain didnt steal anything,at least if you don’t know about something you can make a probability,not to ascertain,only fools would ascertain or deny facts that they are completely unaware thereof. anyways,you keep jumping upon conclusions,i didn’t deny rape,i didnt deny there was a sexual assault,read my words then think of what i said for god’s sake before you make a reply,and yes,the whole world is still living the consequences of the WW2,you can better read for those who are more knowledgable than me,and more knowledgable than you”unless you believe you are very important one on that earth,and the most knowledgable” to be more familiar to issues like this,i have read how the whole world changed after WW2,you can read,then come to argue,i didn’t invent this,i read about it,just ask an old man who have been thru this war ,how was things before that war and how the world gradually changed to the worse,and i don’t blame WW2 for whats going on,but you are again fool if you will judge social ,political aspects of a certain place in the world without taking all factors into your account,our present is the product of our history,what you see is a complex interaction between different factors in the background.what i said ,my point was: the world suffered from the consequences of wars,and the world lost alot of its values after that war,so its nonsense if we will again go thru this,we can get along with each other by mutual understanding not by guns and bombs,you see ,you enraged north korea and the consequences was another nuclear bomb ,you enraged iran,so what are the consequences of this? …nothing getting better,,everything is getting worse,add to that a state of war is to cover up a domestic oppression,the martial law is an evidnece,only weapon companies will benefit,only more oppression will be there,nothing good for you nor for us.
hope you get this,hope i didnt offend you either,good luck in ur life!
plz:you can visit http://www.prisonplanet.com
shams Says:”i have been through the documents of the “grand thieft” of the Egyptian gold stock,denying that proves that you are ignorant of that thing at all and keep talking about things you don’t know about,”the documents can be shown to anyone in the british middle east archive,foreign ministery”..,still you claim britain didnt steal anything,at least if you don’t know about something you can make a probability,not to ascertain,only fools would ascertain or deny facts that they are completely unaware thereof.”
If you have a shred of evidence I would like to see it. The fact remains that the British, unlike most Muslim rulers of Egypt, left Egypt much better off than when they arrived. The British did not steal anything from Egypt, but made the population grow enormously and the economy moderately. You ought to be thankful.
shams Says:”you enraged north korea and the consequences was another nuclear bomb”
Actually I suspect that the Americans have been too nice to the North Koreans and the South certainly has and so that weakness caused the bomb. North Korea always hated the West. There is nothing new there. This is why they invaded the South and why they have been trying to do so again ever since.
shams Says:”you enraged iran,so what are the consequences of this? … nothing getting better,,everything is getting worse”
But that is Iran’s problem, not the West’s. They are seeking confrontation. At some point they will, no doubt, get it.
shams Says:”add to that a state of war is to cover up a domestic oppression,the martial law is an evidnece,only weapon companies will benefit,only more oppression will be there,nothing good for you nor for us.”
That may explain Egypt, but it does not describe the West.
man,you have been staying for so long behind a computer screen,give yourself a break!
“126. lynne Says:
November 1st, 2006 at 11:53 pm
All Muslims cannot be blamed for the actions of others. That is not fair or reasonable.”
I don’t blame all Muslims for the actions of the crazy few. I have Muslim friends. I have been to their homes, I have been to their parties. I have enjoyed their company. I have dated Muslim women. Some of the finest human beings I know are Muslim.
Many, many Muslim nations behave in a civilized manner: Morocco, Tunisia, Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Albania. Algeria went through a violent period after independence, but it has quieted. Libya used to be the biggest exporter of crazy in the Muslim world, but two airstrikes tamed Qaddafi; Libya has not been a problem for more than a decade.
We grew our own terrorists — Timothy McVeigh — and until 11 September 2001, the Oklahoma City bombing was the deadliest act of terrorism the modern world had seen.
What is the difference between the US and Iran? We hunted and caught Timothy McVeigh, then tried and executed him.
In the ongoing rancorous debate between HeiGou and shams, let me say we did nothing to “enrage” NKorea; we did nothing to “enrage” Iran. (Recall that on 9/11, only the residents of Teheran took to the streets with candles to show their sympathy for the American loss.) shams in effect counsels appeasement. Great Britain tried that with a crazy in 1938. The result was a world war and 60 million dead.
The use of two atomic bombs against Hiroshima and Nagasaki was done during a war. It saved a million American casualties and 10 million Japanese casualties (Amerian military estimates). The highest scoring Japanes air ace to survive the war said he would have done the same thing if he stood in the shoes of the American airmen.
I have worked as a professional statistician. The problem with rape statistics is that different communities have different standards as to what constitutes a rape and how often the victims report attacks. Rape statistics are not comparable between Boston and Los Angeles. They certainly are not comparable between Cairo and New York. Saying rape is more prevalent in the West does not solve the problem in Cairo. “You see the splinter in your neighbor’s eye, but you overlook the beam in your own.”
The US bombed Libya to kill Qaddafi; the Air Force missed, but Qaddafi got the message. The US nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki to break the samurai spirit in the Japanese and end World War II.
I was not telling you my opinion of what we should do. I was extrapolating based on the historical record. If the moderate Muslims don’t get control of the crazies among them — and, yes, we have our crazies, too — eventually the crazies will do some real damage to the US. But they will not bring the US down. When that day comes, a large part of the Muslim world will die in thermonuclear fire. And we won’t care what the world thinks.
Man, there sure are some nutjobs in the comments section…
well done antares!,the US stood as the major power in the world since WW2,they nuked the japanese with 2 nuclear bombs when japan was about to surrender,and the reason was to save the japanese,the US has done alot to human history,but alas!,you still hear some people here and there still opposing the american power,sorry,super-power,and refuse to submit to the will of uncle sam,don’t they know that America is the founder of the internet?,don’t they know that America can hunt whomever it wants and whatever it wants whenever it wants? didn’t they see how they perfectly forged a weapon of mass destruction dossier,to trap iraq,to make it a model of democracy in the middle east?,they even gave the iraqis a good access to adult intertainment outlets,and to junk food and tooth-dissolving drinks ,we can forget about minor casualties,and necessary damage,those idiots in the middle east don’t realize that bombing the children with white phosphorous,or destroying the country’s infrastructure or killing 100,000 of their citizens is something crucial,inevitable,and compensable for the sake of democracy,look the idea of freedomization is very simple,first they have to destroy the infrastructure of that country in concern,giving contracts to the american companies to fix what the american army destroyed “by the american weapons”,then the americans ,will instead have control over their natural resources,see,contractors ,weapon companies,and oil companies ,all will benefit ,and the other country will have democracy,adult entertainment,tooth dissolving drinks and junk food instead,why then,those idiots around the world don’t understand the american policy? havent they freedomized veitnam and iraq? lucky is he who will have the next chance of freedomization,and how sad and miserable the one who will still refuse to optimize and standardize and idealize his thoughts and values to the american values,the authentic values,starting from the genocide of indians,till the iraq,God bless America!
“note i’ll post this to big pharaoh as well,they need some irony there!”
Shams, we nuked Japan when they were about to surrender?
Exactly what institute for the mentally retarded did you graduate from?
The situation in Egypt will only get worse. When women are treated are treated like this there is something wrong with the society that produces such people.
Hello to all of you guys. Speaking as a girl who has been sexually harassed in Egypt by the boys in my school, at a soccer game, and verbally harassed in the streets, I can only say that the police will never protect women in egypt. At the soccer game that i went to, me and my sister were grabbed everywhere…and when we brought this upto the police, it first seemed like they were going to do somethin about it because they told us to follow them and stand behind their so called “human wall”. So we went behind it and then when we came to leave because we were not going to be let into the soccer game, we passed through their “human wall” and were grabbed and touched in every possible way by the police themselves. Not one guy at the game had the decency to back off so i yelled out and they backed off for a few seconds but then charged full force at us again. And as if that wasnt enough, they tore my jacket and my flag. All i can say is that most men here in egypt are pigs and i dont think any law can change that.
Mariam, my advice to you is the same advice I tell every right-thinking person from this area. Vote with your feet and move away.
I know it means leaving your home ad family, but things are not going to get better in th next few decades. You only have one life ( unless you’re a hindu 🙂 ), you should not have to live like that.
thnx for the advice…i’ve been thinking about that for a while…infact my mom wants to move me to the states (even though she has no idea about anything of the above happening). Anyways i wanted to speak about my own experience only to say that i can relate to the girls who this happened to and stuff…And i regret the day i ddnt say anything about it…part of me wanted to but the shock after it happened at the embarassment that i felt for not doing anything about it made me keep my silence until now.
To shams: It is clear to me that you live in the APU. I cannot conduct a reasonable dialogue with you. I will no longer answer you.
“The man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.”
— Paul Simon
man,don’t worry about anything,i liked your dialogue though,you only need to remember one fact,you aren’t a decision maker in ur country,and i’m not,we can’t influence anything.
mariam,where exactly did you have those assaults,can you tell me the name of the police station who ignored you?,i can help you to sue them all.
Who gave you the right to be judge and jury, usurping the role of legitimate authority (Boston police, prosecutor, judge, and jury)?
The Boston police should have put you in jail for a long time.
There is a solution.
The right to bear arms, and the legal right to defend yourself.
Tittie Grabbers would be an endangered species where I live.
[…] RAPE ON THE STREETS: An Incredible Happening In Egypt. SandMonkey has all the goods …. (freedomszone, sandmonkey) […]
I was so sad to hear this story…. i agree with you… i just not right……
Regarding the New York Central Park attacks:
“The detectives interrogating the five youths accused of raping the victim in the Central Park jogger case, through the use of isolation, intimidation, threats and psychological coercion and manipulation, got not one youth, but all five youths to confess to the crime. The detectives likely congratulated themselves on their cleverness and refusal to take “no” for an answer. Unfortunately for these five youths, the victim, the detectives, and society as a whole, none of the five boys were involved in the rape. Not one. That the confessions were contradicted by the forensic evidence apparently, bothered the detectives and the prosecutors not at all. Meanwhile, the real culprit, Matias Reyes, remained at large and a threat to the city’s women. It was not until 13 years later, when irrefutable DNA evidence connected Reyes to the crime, that the prosecutors finally admitted the awful truth – that the boys had been coerced into confessing to a crime that they did not commit.”
Do a search on The New York Times website, or other such sites, to reveal many stories on this.
There is a hypocrisy in societies like Egypt about such incidents that allows them to go unpunished. The protestations that ‘we aren’t like that’ and to put all such behavior on westerners, non-arabs, is the other half of a mindset that thinks Allah wants people to hide sins of those around them, rather than challenge them, help eliminate them, speak honestly and shame them.
People pretend it didn’t happen, COULDN’T happen among their muslim boys, and blame the victims because it is easier to believe that women must have deserve such behavior (women of course are evil and must constantly be hidden away, covered up, quiet, submissive, etc. to prevent men from being coerced into such behavior) and that it must be Allah’s will, or Allah will take care of it.
Raising boys in a environment where women are not PEOPLE, but objects to be coveted, feared, avoided, only until they are unleashed for marriage to them, results in an acceptance of them ‘breaking free’ sometimes. It reinforces the idea that women are evil tempters. Of course in some environs, it results in men being so afraid to enjoy a good conversation with a woman, that they divert normal feelings into, sexual relationships with other men and/or overt violence and abusiveness against women when they can do it anonymously (in group attacks, in other settings, etc.)
When men are made freer and freer, and women by contrast are to be more covered up, more passive, more afraid, more like children, etc, of course many men feel freer to abuse them. The powerful over those they are taught are powerless! It has always been that way, even if kept more silent. Even the Bahraini Shariah courts are devising ways to ensure the national laws allow men to mistreat women, young girls, infant girls. All under the guise of “islam.”
It is very sad (pathetic) to read people diverting the real issues by either blaming western influence, claiming it is some random abberation instead of a real problem to be addressed, etc.
Of course, such incidents are not exclusive to egypt or arab countries, but perhaps the most prominent issue here is not the violence of men against women, but the attitude of the police and national laws.
Yes, such things occur in the U.S., but the people have fought to make sure the laws reinforce the BEST of how society must be, and the police must enforce those laws. Such laws can only come from a society that has formed and value the enforcement and protection of, such standards.
In a society where the burden is on women to individually cover themselves up enough, hide themselves away enough, move under the skirts of old women, and their husbands, all to avoid the assaults of men, there is no standard of law or society to protect them.
[…] Monday, 30 Oct 2006 The Eid sexual harassment incident http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/10/30/the-eid-sexual-harassment-incident/ […]
[…] ***BP is referring to a horrifying incident of “wilding” (mass sexual harassment of women in public on the streets) that occurred in downtown Cairo some weeks ago. […]
“The first is my stupid insistince on always paying for the bill when I am with a girl I am dating, and the second is my protectiveness of women. I have no tolerance for those who assault women sexually in any way, and that almost got me kicked out of my school in Boston when I broke the leg of one of my roommates who raped a friend of mine. The incident only resulted in him getting a broken leg because people stoped me before I killed him. And I had the full intention of killing him. Rapists do not deserve to live. And that’s how I feel towards every single one of those pieces of shit that attacked women on the streets of cairo the other day.”
I semi-regularly disagree with things you write as biased, but i’m glad there’s one thing we agree on…
and to that idiot asking who gave him the right to judge (and attempt to kill) a rapist? who gave you the right to DEFEND a racist?
interesting to note those who blamed muslims, and those who blamed the west.
FUCK THAT.
this issue is not about islam being evil or the Usa being Evil. this is about a wrong doing that happens.
it happened in new york a few years ago. http://archives.cnn.com/2000/US/06/14/central.park.assault.01/
in china about a year ago, a whole bar stood and watched motionless as a man raped a woman… no one tried to stop him.. no one cheered yes, but no one tried to stop him either.
at the climax of and after ww2 , 2 million german women were raped by russians. also in ww2 chinese were brutally raped and sexually abused by japanese soliders.
i blame this on MEN. not on islam, not on the west but on MEN.
let women lead the world and make the laws for a bit, it’s about freaking time.
(and btw, i AM a man.)
Just when I thought Egypt couldn’t get any lower!
If I had a gun and was there during these assaults, I swear I wouldnt have hesitated to shoot someone with it!
Where is the fucking interior ministry?? Isn’t it there job to protect the people and maintain order? or do they just settle for lining up all the way from the Cairo’s international airport to Hosny fucking Mubarak’s fort?!!!
Iam speechless!
Mess with our women Arab and/or muslim #%666s and get your brains blown out.
This is horrifying!
May I link?
[…] Read more: here […]
Stern mesures are needed.NMothing short of a “Castrate at Sight” order , ably executed by a well meaning NGO (Non-Govermental Organisation) under special charter from the Goverment , can stem the rot
“Come on” peooooooople…..wake up!!!!!
The world’s technology has gone so far & our youth r still so uncivilized!!!
I can’t believe. It……My hair stood in horror & I felt like a current in my body
I have just left Egypt to Newcastle for studies 3 months ago
This webpage really struck me off my chair.
I just can’t believe that this bad time could ever come on Egypt
Are they pretending that they haven’t got enough money to get married …so they become wild?
…..well I don’t think so …I think we need a WAR to make us realise that we have been sleeping for a long time……..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To make us remember that we r so unfortunate MUSLIMS…Who know nothing about their religion ….has Egypt lost its qualities?
The problem isn’t with these guys ….never …the problem….is related to the whole system
I am so sick off the system….. Egypt needs a revolution…
I love my country. I am so sad because a few bad examples do affect the whole nation which includes the minority of good people (that have become so behind the scene.)
Every thing needs to be built up again …….&
1st of .all. Mentality. The thinking of people has to be changed
Corruption & bribes…….have ruined our lives
No one cares 4 no one…..Everyone does’nt want to be aware..does’nt want to think….& simply says I am not responsible…..& adds himself into the count of moles..!!!…t
Trust has died between people
UN employment…..& if employed less wages…no future plans or innovation
Then wiping out the thieves who never give up from stealing Egypt’s wealth
……………..No organization. No queue….selfishness makes people eat their brothers to possess & achieve their goals
Liars everywhere……. (Listen to banana terracotta pie. system of a down)
…..Un equality between people…leads to unjust ice…
People abroad have different skin colours…with different positions & family status. Poor & rich…..white, black & red, but no one can even thing of becoming a racist .a restricted system in return consequences in people obeying them, giving them a clean pattern in life & a light in their way.
which leads to justice ,love & care 4 each other…people are so busy here inventing ,discovering ,planning…exploring the world. No one is free to talk against each other
Drugs has become the only way 4 people to relief their pain
I was once one of them & I thought that the problem was me…..
But when I left the country I realised that it’s not me, it was my friends …the
Killing environment that has forced us to addiction!!
Less activities & less opportunities to fulfil them was the reason
Whereas corruption is everywhere …….but life abroad convinces u that u can easily choose what u want to b…..an ignorant or a civilised …no one urges anyone…
i am sorry …i know i am burst today …but still we have very good people
Brothers me alone can do nothing…..!!!!!!!
Killing illiteracy is not the only way…..its worth to be illiterate than not to use this education…in the need of others
To be educated is not enough …we have to use this knowledge in helping people escape their nightmares …to give them hope in a brighter tomorrow
We all need to cooperate & if everyone can change at almost 10 people. Life will be better…
If everyone one of us can change at least 1 person, in 5 yrs time our coming generations will never even imagine of repeating the”eid’s sexual harassment act again”.
I believe in a complete format resulting in improvement & achievement in the future. We just have to put some effort in keep trying to broaden people’s mind. ennshallah…& I will never be shocked head to kneels….again
I am sure Egypt will again return victorious to its days of glory….
Amen
Egyptians are always smart, & the evidence proves it .that we have one of the best civilizations …but we do lack possibilities.
..We have to make our own destinations…….to live a prosperous life
Does everyone have to flee & work by his own to make his dreams come true?
I have been off point allot .forgive me
Allah el mosta3an,
[…] He was arrested in November, tried this month, and today the verdict came down: guilty of contempt of religion, insulting the president and spreading false information. I’ve written before about Egyptian bloggers and how, although there’s only a very few of them blogging about politics, they’ve exerted extraordinary influence in the country by exposing gruesome torture by the state police and mass sexual harassment of women on the streets of Cairo after Eid. (Their latest expose came just a few weeks ago.) Not only that, but according to the Beeb, “Bloggers also play an important role in Egypt’s small pro-democracy movement. They advertise in advance the times and venues of political protests, and then post pictures and accounts of how the police dealt with the demonstrations.” I’ve written about that, too. […]
This is frickin outrageous!
As a teenage Sunni Muslim-American girl who is of mixed heritage (European and African), as I look back in history, I can see these things happening to my ancestors and it angers me. Rape in general angers me. Females being violated angers me. If a man is really a man, he wouldn’t rape anyone. If a man (or woman) rapes anybody, they have sunk lower than dirt. They are more filthy than animals! It’s good to see a person like you who feels the way that a lot of us do. This act is highly against Islamic morals, and it angers me that the police responded like that. They should all be fired. And on Eid! Ya Allah! SuphaAllah! These men should be tortured and killed.
But in the end, I am scared to death of rape and molestation.
My Solidarity with all democratic Sandmonkeys in Middle East!
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Coming back everyday to read posts.
hey sandmonkey,
I am sorry to hear about the above. The more I hear of such things the more I am convinced that there can not be peace in the reagon. Woman, The Jew, America, Western Culture, they are all targeted as the cause of all problems in the Arab world !! The problem is the Political Leaders, Sheiks, Immams, Clereks, who use Islam to their own ends, to control and enslave and direct/use the Arab and Islamic People. The Jew and the Arab/Muslim are Religious Cousins but the perversion of Muslim Political and Religious Leadership will only move the reigon/world towards the complete destruction from The G-d of us all. Both the Jew and the Arab have received their Blessing from ‘The G-d of Abraham, why should their not be peace/and civilization between our people.
hey sandmonkey,
I am sorry to hear about the above. The more I hear of such things the more I am convinced that there can not be peace in the reagon. Woman, The Jew, America, Western Culture, they are all targeted as the cause of all problems in the Arab world !! The problem is the Political Leaders, Sheiks, Immams, Clereks, who use Islam to their own ends, to control and enslave and direct/use the Arab and Islamic People. The Jew and the Arab/Muslim are Religious Cousins but the perversion of Muslim Political and Religious Leadership will only move the reigon/world towards the complete destruction from The G-d of us all. Both the Jew and the Arab have received their Blessing from ‘The G-d of Abraham, why should their not be peace/and civilization between our people.
[…] when she was all of a sudden sexually attacked by the young Egyptian men in the audience (remember the Eid incident). She was traumatized and the festival was […]
[…] is referring to a horrifying incident of “wilding” (mass sexual harassment of women in public on the streets) that occurred in downtown Cairo some weeks […]
[…] is referring to a horrifying incident of “wilding” (mass sexual harassment of women in public on the streets) that occurred in downtown Cairo some weeks […]
[…] Iran, Kina Burma, for ren overlevelse. Man husker de kvindelige, egyptiske bloggere i 2006 The Eid sexual harrasment, Mass sexual assault in downtown […]
[…] also posted about a specific case of sexual abuse in […]
[…] of the women are veiled, 83% of women are harassed. During the Eid festivities in Egypt in 2006, mass sexual harassments went on downtown (video here), with hundreds of men sexually assaulting […]
[…] of the women are veiled, 83% of women are harassed. During the Eid festivities in Egypt in 2006, mass sexual harassments went on downtown (video here), with hundreds of men sexually assaulting […]
[…] of the women are veiled, 83% of women are harassed. During the Eid festivities in Egypt in 2006, mass sexual harassments went on downtown (video here), with hundreds of men sexually assaulting […]
First of all MASHALLAH I applaud you: YOU ARE RIGHT AND THE FACT YOU ARE MALE MAKES ME WANT TO SHED TEARS
I came to our blog through a mail and I’m glad I did. It was pictures of Mawra, the Lebanese/ Arabian singer, who was sexually assaulted. First of all she sings provocative songs but unfortunately so does most rappers and musicians of our age – Just because she was being sensual gives no one ANY RIGHT to harm her.
I was utterly Disgusted – the men in the picture did not let the woman go even when the police arrived! They looked like they were gonna cum! I swear upon God it was the sickest SHIT I have ever seen!
Secondly, someone on YOUTUBE said that woman deserved it! I got so angry I answered him directly. True, it’s a shame girls wear clothes too provocative but men also do provocative things – the horridness was IMPOSSIBLE!
I am a girl and I am a person who has always looked at men and women equally from a young age. My father was disgusted seeing what happened to Mawra – he was gravely disappointed. What makes a man is his patience and understanding
Now hearing this of the Eid incident I wanna ask who teaches these kind of men these things! I am so HORRIFIED! You know in my country it’s the same and that is why girls my age are caged. Because of parents who are afraid their daughters will get raped/assaulted and the police will eat shit.
I APPLAUD for BREAKING THE FUCKER’S LEG! ALLAH BLESS U! I may not be pro-US but I share many things that you perceive and I hope that FUCKER gets what he DESERVES FOR RAPING YOUR FRIEND (Is she okay, how is she now?)
I APPLAUD you for being who you are and I hate this complex that some men have. Islam DID NOT TEACH THEM THIS
May Allah, keep you this way forever… ^_^ 😉
[…] is referring to a horrifying incident of “wilding” (mass sexual harassment of women in public on the streets) that occurred in downtown Cairo some weeks […]
[…] that particular incident, SandMonkey wrote: The story is as follows for the those of you who didn't hear about it: It was the first […]
[…] that particular incident, SandMonkey wrote: The story is as follows for the those of you who didn't hear about it: It was the first […]
[…] that particular incident, SandMonkey wrote: The story is as follows for the those of you who didn’t hear about it: It was the […]
[…] ذلك الحادث بالتحديد، كتب SandMonkey : القصة هي كما يلي لمن منكم لم يسمع عنها: كان أول أيام […]
[…] that I cannot begin to get into: it makes me so angry. These incidents seem to have just gotten worse over the years, as well. In particular, I’m puzzled by an odd cultural double standard; there seems to be an […]
I wish I could kill all those sons of bitches with my own hand. I am Egyptian and I am also a lawyer and I would like to tell you that police-men in my country rape and torture and traffic drugs with permission from the president Hosny Mubarak himself. I pray to God that he and the cops and all sex offenders rot in hell.
[…] are frequently harassed in Egypt. The Cairo Metro has women’s-only cars. Incidents of mass assault are not unheard of and the more lurid cases frequently make it into the international media. However, Egyptian first […]
[…] http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/10/30/the-eid-sexual-harassment-incident/ […]
[…] And that reminded me of the crackdowns that happened after the ‘Eid assaults downtown. Like there were a series of arrests. I think on one certain day they arrested like a […]
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Evan Hill, Evan Hill. Evan Hill said: @fraygulrock Sometimes there are mob situations and it explodes into full blown sexual assault. http://ow.ly/3X5Ak […]
Hi
I’m a woman, born and raised in Canada, of European decent. I’m not of the Arab world and have never even so much as travelled there. I also, while I live my oblivious life in Vancouver, have never heard of this incident.
I’m disgusting that this even happened. I’m more disgusted that a man thinks that ripping off a woman’s top or trying to force himself on her is even OKAY! Who are these men? Who are these weakling that assume that it’s their right to take what doesn’t belong to them.
i’m glad that someone had the heart and strength to come out against these acts. You’re a good man “sandmonkey”
[…] even before this, Egypt (and Cairo in particular) had gained some notoriety in recent years for horrifying attacks on women during the days of Eid. The perceived increase in harassment was feared to have a […]
[…] egyptian women. it was during the eid ul-fitr festival which marks the end of ramadan. here’s one description of what […]
Thanks god here is no problem like dis!
[…] of the women are veiled, 83% of women are harassed. During the Eid festivities in Egypt in 2006, mass sexual harassments went on downtown (video here), with hundreds of men sexually assaulting women.What’s worse […]