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62 thoughts on “The Canadians wake up

  1. What you don’t want Canadians to wake up about is that our country is being used as a safehouse by so-called immigrants who have no real stake in Canada, its people and its history. I feel very sorry for this Egyptian guy, innocent or guilty. Compared to peaceful, generally law-abiding Canada, the Middle East is a scary place. However, it seems odd to me that many people who are lucky enough to be accepted into Canada, stick around only for a few years, make some money, get a passport, and then return to their “real country”. Even odder, when they get into trouble, they scream like hell for the Canadian government (made up of committed Canadians) to rescue them. And this guy even had the gall to say he returned to Egypt because it was “[his] country.” Oh, sorry, so why did he call Canada again?

    My mind was blown by the number of Lebanese living in Lebanon holding Canadian passports. Now, with all due respect for the Lebanese who live and thrive in Toronto and Montreal, adding to our multicultural society, paying taxes, getting along okay, committed to their new life in Canada, when I read about the Lebanese Canadian-passport holders in Lebanon, demanding a ship and then complaining about the “service”, my thought was “Who ARE these people?”

    I think Rosie DiManno was hinting at this in her article, although for once she was not as frank as I. But she does underscore one thing: a Canadian passport is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

  2. But SM, the Ambassador said that torture is forbidden in Egypt with allegations investigated and violators punished! Therefore all the stories we hear about arrestees being tortured and abused can’t possibly be true, can they?

    Surely an Egyptian government representative would never lie about such things. I feel much better now knowing that they don’t really abuse and torture suspects in Egypt given that the US sends 2 billion dollars a year to their government. What a relief.

  3. I too was blown away by the sherr number of Lebanese/Canadians of convenience who required rescuing this past summer I knew there were some but not that many. That’s probably why I am so turned off on multi culturalism, we are a country of wimps to allow this to happen. I feel sorry for the Egyptian currently in trouble, on the other hand he went back on his own volition, too bad, so sad…ciao

  4. EGYPTIANS are very welcome in my Canadian house! I like multiculturalism, as long as it’s sensible. In every wave of immigration to Canada, we have been hard on the newcomers. It used to be Celestials, Ukrainians, Germans, Hungarians, etc, you know the drill… Canadians citizens are refugees with seniority. Now its Middle Easterners, and yes this Egyptian did a stupid thing (I never have), and got caught. Then he whined for help to save his life (which I wouldn’t do). Most Muslims make great citizens, and Canada will not single-handedly reverse Egyptian legal traditions.

  5. I love how the ambassador said there is zero tolerance policy for torture and its not something they condone/permit. One has to wonder how he could say that with a straight face, especially with all the Youtube videos circulating.

    And to Candienne Errante:
    “And this guy even had the gall to say he returned to Egypt because it was “[his] country.” Oh, sorry, so why did he call Canada again?”

    I don’t really see what your problem is with that. Yes the man was a complete idiot for going back especially if he had previously sought asylum, but it is his country just as Canada is his country as well. I have citizenship in 3 countries: Egypt, Canada, and the US and I consider all three to be “my” country.

    And as to the Lebanese/Canadians of “convenience” I think most of them where just there for summer vacation or they had gotten citizenship from their Canadian wives/husbands but chose to live in Lebanon with their families anyways. I see no problem with that either.

  6. Let me see if I got this striaght. An Egyptian guy flees persecution in Egypt, goes to Canada, gets asylum in Canada, lives in Canada safely for a few years, goes back to Egypt (the very same Egypt he fled from originally), gets put in jail and is tortured. Nah, that can’t be it. I mean, that’s just silly. It would be like Jews escaping 1930’s Nazi Germany and returning to celebrate Octoberfest in the 40’s. No one is going to believe it. Did people who defected from the USSR during Khrushchev later return during Breshnev? Of course not. So what’s this story about? There must be a translation error.

  7. “Canadian citizens are refugees with seniority” No-sorry. I’m no refugee. I’m a fourth generation descendent of economic migrants. They left their old country; they never looked back. Two generations of them fought for Canada; one of them did a stint in a Japanese POW camp. I’ve spent almost my entire life in Canada. I have no other country.

    “We’re all immigrants” is a common slogan in Ontario used to make immigrants feel more welcome. But it’s just that–it’s a slogan. Millions of us were born in Canada. Millions of Quebeckers can trace their Canadian ancestry to the early 17th century. And millions of Canadians have no close relatives in any other country. If there was a war, or a famine, or the collapse of civilization, we’d have nowhere else to go. And there’s nowhere else we would go. It’s a little old-fashioned, but Canadian culture–oh yes, there is a Canadian culture under fifty years of multiculturalism–is a little old-fashioned in some ways.

  8. Errante –

    So are you saying that you need to be able to count back four generations or more, in order to be a bonefide Canadian? Because those of us who were born there as first generation Canadians are not Canadian enough? Give me a break. If you want to use longevity as a measuring stick, lets just simply go back to the Native aboriginals who were there living and thriving long before the British and the French came to essentially obliterate them. And where are the Natives now? They are the poorest, most marginalized minorities in Canada, living in absolute squalor in some reservations, and the future doesn’t look too bright for them either. The concept of the “we’re all immigrants” comes in part due to this – that the Europeans were immigrants as well, coming to a land mass that was already occupied by another group.

    Thing is, I agree with the notion that Canada needs to find an identity, because it sadly lacks one. The images that come to mind with being a Canadian aren’t as strong as say, being an Egyptian or a Japanese. Even Americans conjure up certain images or notions when we think of it. Canada is pretty lukewarm in this category. But I guess before we do this – we need to stop doing the we-they game and move forward.

  9. Australia has the same problem. When the Lebanon war broke out last summer, boatloads of naturalized Aussie-Lebanese were screaming for the Aussies tax-payers to get them out of the Beruit and fly them back to Sydney/Melbourne. They claimed that Australia has an obligation to protect their citizens around the world.

    So naturally people here in Oz started asking why so many Lebanese who are granted Australian citizenship promptly turn around and return to Lebanon to live and work. It is making Australia seriously reconsider accepting dual-citizenship.

    A similar story with the Australian Gito prisoner “Habib”, the Pakistani that was caught in Afghanistan and sent to Gitmo suspected of fighting for the Taliban. He had been granted asylum in Australia, then promptly went back to Pakistan and then Taliban controlled Afganistan in order to, in his words, “… find an acceptably Islamic school for this daughters.”. Funny that… that Taliban don’t believe in educating women.

    So anyhow, after caught, Habib starts waving his Aussie passport around. And the Aussie goverment is pressured by the leftists here to bring Habib home, on the Aussie tax-payers dollars. In the meantime, while Habib is running around the Middle East in his adventures, his wife and kids are home in collecting welfare checks thanks to the generous Aussie government. Nice eh?

    Habib is back in Oz and free. He is the media darling of the left, telling everyone about how the Egyptians tortured him before he was sent to Cuba as a guest of the US military at Gitmo. And he complains now how unfair it is now that the Australian security and intelligence services now keep a close eye on him.

  10. Democracyrules

    I don’t agree with you. There were, of course, many immigrants to Canada from Europe, Asia and Africa but many people from the ME (and/or Pakistan) use and abuse laws of Canada more often than immigrants from other nationalities. I am not saying that immigrants from other countries do not do that, but it seems more common with people from the ME. That said I don’t agree with Canadienne Errante, some people who have been born in Canada feel less Canadian than some recent immigrants. It is not the length of time one’s familly lived in the country that makes one Canadian (or British or american) it is how one thinks of oneself.

    Ron Larson, it was even “better” in Poland.
    I’ve heard that at the end of recent war in Lebanon people with double nationality (polish/lebanese) who returned to poland at the beginning of the war ( polish government did pay for the transportation) demanded that polish government pays for their return trip to Lebanon.

  11. Canadienne Errante @ # 9, you go girl!!!!

    #10, Cat, you’re full of it. That’s not what Canadienne Errante meant, and you know it.

    Your knowledge of Canadian history is pathetic. Take this, for example “before the British and the French came to essentially obliterate them”.

    ?????? Gimme a break. Ever heard of the fur trade era, namely the first 340 years of our history? Talk about the “we-they game”!!

    Oh. And this: “the Europeans were immigrants as well, coming to a land mass that was already occupied by another group.”

    I challenge you to show me one part of the inhabited world that hasn’t been invaded or conquered at one time or another in the broad sweep of history. If you want to know why the Aborginal population of Canada was swept aside, take a look at the difference in technological development (and the capacity therefore to support a large, settled population), or lack thereof, and the immunity to communicable diseases, or lack thereof, and you’ll have the reason.

    Your notion that we don’t have an identity is silly. Canadienne Errante just articulated a very important part of that identity. Go read her comment again and try to understand what she is really saying.

  12. Louise –

    Just becuase it’s happened all over the world makes it right? The Australians have exactly the same aborigina “problem” that Canadians do. My point is, you can’t claim that the Europeans in Canada, Australia or any other such country weren’t immigrants – they very well were! The disenfranchised on the England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland —over to the eastern seaboard of North America to what is now Canada and New England in the US. The criminals and apostates of the same landmass —exiled to Australia. Europeans did not originally come from these areas!

    And the other tone has very much a racist leaning – aboriginal couldn’t hack it, what with all our guns, gunpowder and diseases – evolution and Darwin rules! You might as well say, “we are the superior races and if we can conquer land, we will”.

    Finally, the notion of the Canadian identity? What is it? Maple syrup and hockey? Tim Hortons and arctic fishing? That’s what we teach immigrants in the poorly funded language programs across the country. You have 40 year old chemists and doctors reciting poems on the maple leaf and how it changes colour over the seasons. About summer vacations “up north at the cottage” to go fishing for mackerel and pike – these people can barely pay rent! So what is the Canadian identity? Huh? Please regale me with that one. Our reputation abroad? We’re nice, polite, with no backbone. Is that what you’re talking about?

    You’re a Stockwell Day backer, aren’t you?

  13. Louise, thank you. Cat, there’s no reason to accuse or suggest someone votes for someone you don’t like because they support the notion of Canadian identity. And you sound rather dismissive about poems about the maple leaf for a patriotic Canadian. No Canadian slags the maple leaf.

    I am pro-immigration. Canada seems to attract the best and brightest from around the world, and that is great. One thing about modern immigration, though, is that modern immigrants can afford both financially and emotionally to have a foot in two countries: the one they came from and the one they live in. Before instant communications and cheap air travel, immigrants didn’t have that. And that means that four generations ago and before, immigrants more or less cut themselves off from the Old Country and had undivided loyalty to Canada (and maybe Britain, since Canada was a loyal member of the British Empire).

    Amid all the argument about who is an immigrant, there is a fact: some people have a many-generational stake in Canada, and some do not. And if your great-grandfather fought at Vimy Ridge, you’re going to have a more emotional understanding of why it is said modern Canadian identity was born at Vimy Ridge. If your grandfather fought the Nazis, you are going to have a more emotional response, even if you’re not Jewish, when someone spray paints a swastika on the kosher butcher shop down the street. If your parents lived through the October Crisis, you’re going to have a more emotional response to talk about the FLQ and Quebec separatism.

    A country is not something that you own by virtue of a passport but something that owns your heart.

    Meanwhile, yeah. Canadian identity does include maple syrup, hockey, the local coffee-and-doughnut joint, fishing, the arctic, the maple leaf and the cottage. Try not to spit on it. Canadian identity is rooted in the environment of the land, our adaptation to that environment (including playing hockey), and in Canadian history. This is why it is can difficult to “see” Canadian identity if someone lives in a Toronto suburb and don’t know anything about Canadian history beyond who oppressed who. Fortunately, it is all captured in books, so I recommend anything by Pierre Berton and also Will Fergusson’s hilarious “How to be a Canadian.” The connection of the Canadian wilderness and Canadian identity can be found in the early novels of Margaret Atwood and in the novels of Margaret Lawrence, for example.

  14. Damn all of you on this comments section. For once I can’t pick sides because everybody seems to have a valid point.

    How about we settle it with a group Canadian hug?

  15. By the way, I want to be absolutely clear that I believe there are hundreds of thousands of immigrants and children-of-immigrants who have Canada first in their hearts, who learn the history, and who have made a sincere commitment to Canada. And I also want to make it absolutely clear that many of the over-four-generation Canadians are not white. There have been black Canadians and Chinese Canadians, for example, since before Confederation. (And by Canadian, in that case, I mean British subjects in North America in a territory now called Canada.)

  16. You know there are plenty of Canadians of convenience. Before China took back Hong Kong, tens of thousands of Chinese got Canadian passports “just in case” things didn’t go well after the takeover. House prices in the Lower Mainland skyrocketted. Aside from that I don’t think anyone was feeling resentful towards the Chinese. However, the Lebanese/Canadians who acquired a passport, demanded to be rescued during the war at tax payer expense, complained about the conditions of their rescue and then returned promptly after the war are another story. Did any of them ever pay TAXES here???? I like the idea where nonresident Canadians pay a hefty price for their passport ($500 plus) in case they need rescuing in the future!

  17. ‘Before China took back Hong Kong, tens of thousands of Chinese got Canadian passports “just in case” things didn’t go well after the takeover.’

    That’s because we told them their British passports were worthless.

  18. Cat I suggest you reread what Errante was saying. I think you missed her point.

    Louise… well said!

    Dave… this is what passes for a Canadian knock-down, drag-out ! ‘less it’s got to do with hockey.

    The world does not start without Tims, and it’s not the weekend if there’s no game on! Pass me a Blue!

  19. Message to cat: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Old. Boring.

    History sucks. sweetheart. Get over it. There never has been and never will be a perfect world. Adults know that. Children have tantrums.

    #15. Canadienne Errante, well said!!

  20. Cat

    What is wrong with maple leaf as a symbol of Canadian identity?
    As for poorly founded english courses for immigrants that’s just an excuse to not learn english. My immigrant friend is now a translator, she learned english herself borrowing english tapes and books from the library, listening to people and asking them to correct her english. I have seen chinese on the subway listening not to music but to english lessons and repeating over and over again english vocabulary. There are free english lessons on the internet. So if one wants to learn english there are many opportunities to do that, even with little or no money.

  21. Decades ago there were no fully funded English courses for immigrants. They learned on their own. My grandmother started studying English before she emigrated to Canada. Today people want the government to pay for everything. I think that it is the immigrant who should be offering needed services to Canada, not the other way around. There are enough people born in Canada who need copius amounts of help. What is the purpose of immigration if immigrants are taking more than they give? I have read that this is what is starting to happen. Oh well, if other Canadians don’t care why should I?

  22. I think that the westernies express too loud their need of immigrants to replace their low birth rate,

    1) who are going to give them a decent retirement wellfare, and and at what age , 60, 65, 70, …75 years old ?

    2) to get some new genes, cause their traditional population tend to get fat, even children are born so now, therefore health problems, and a death caused by heart and veins deseases, therefore no productive persons …

    America isn’t only concerned by now, we get some fatty people in EU too, and the problem of retirement for the working class is very accurate bay now too

  23. When I came to US I spent all my last money on TV. Learned English (and still learning) and American culture using TV. What is wrong with this approach?
    America gives you an opportunity but it does not promise to you anything to be delivered on silver platter. You actually expected to work (and work hard) to get what you want.

    As to richness of one culture or the other.

    I challenge anyone to prove to me that there is more diversity of cultures and their heritage(s) than in countries like US, Canada and Australia.
    We have everything. You name it, we got it. And each culture adds to distinctiveness of our US, Canadian and American cultures.

  24. Karen, the problem is if people only think with their bank notes, we’ll find many problems arising ; I myself think in another perspective : the future of the population as it-self, and the perspectives aren’t really good, unless we remove humanity with robots ;

  25. Louise, I agree. Learning about U.S. culture through watching TV is indeed depressing. I quit going to my health club in part because all the treadmills faced television sets. Boy, I hope U.S. culture isn’t really what was on those television sets.

    Like a good Canadian, I will now caution everyone not to think that life is the same in Canada, the USA and Australia. Don’t know much about Australia, but there are some real, serious, institutional, cultural, historical and political differences between Canada and the USA. And because I live in the USA, I will point out that, contrary to the stereotype, not all Americans are fat. I rarely see really fat Americans, but maybe that is my neighbourhood. (Obesity is linked to income.) And Americans are pretty genetically diverse. Hollywood does a really lousy job of presenting “America” to the world.

  26. Nomad,
    It was you who said western nations need immigrants so that they can have a comfortable retirement. All I am saying is that that is not the case. Since the 90’s the Canadian taxpayer has had to spend more money than they have received from immigrants. Immigrants are not doing as well economically as they did in the past. You must know what types of social problems arise from this. From what I have read, French muslim immigrants and their French children have not been integrated into the larger society and are “ghettoized”. This is soon going to be our future in Canada.

  27. yeah, I said that because this is an unavoidable issue ; wether you like it or not, unless your a superwoman who can live healthy over 100 years ;

    and french muslim immigrants can’t be put for the whole in the same basket ;
    the only one your always referring are living in big cities surburbs and represent only about 5% of the lot ; among theses 5 % some want really a job and because of their skin or lack of formation they can’t ; Your too pessimist for Canada, such a huge country will find a way to assimilate them; naturally, you need a certain time to get to know each others

  28. Louise, are you taking TV literally? Poor me?

    Canadienne Errante, what exactly are you watching on TV that got you so depressed? And you are right, Canada, the USA and Australia are three different countries, yet they have a lot in common. Strictly speaking A not = B, B not = C, C not = A and yet they all are alphas.

  29. I am all for immigration Nomad and I think multiculturalism is fine too. I just think that Canadians have to put their needs first. In selecting immigrants they need to select thoses who will benefit our Country. I don’t care what religion or colour the immigrant is. Canada needs certain kinds of immigrants from the skilled to the unskilled. We just have to choose those whose talents are in short supply here. Unfortunately, the government who was in power pandered to certain immigrant groups who gave them their votes at election time. We will have to wait and see what our new government will do. Also, Canadians my age have been told numerous not to only count on the government to take care of them in their retirement. That’s why my husband and I have rrsp’s.

  30. you mean a private assurance we do too, except some people will somehow have to work to pay back your fees in times

  31. The shows I saw that depressed me (and this is usually with the sound off) were “The Biggest Loser,” “House,” some other hospital program–the one with Sandra Oh, “Dancing with the Stars”, “Survivor.” “Judge (Whoever)”, the news, and entertainment shows, must memorably the one that showed risque pictures and clips of porn movies, etc., that stars were in before they became successful. But now that I have quit my gym, I no longer have to watch TV!

    In general, though, I think TV is a great way to learn another language.

  32. I have heard that I will get nothing from the government in my old age. I hope it isn’t true. And yes, I know that if I am to receive some assistance there has to be more people contributing than collecting. But if the people who come here receive more in the way of social benefits than they contribute than we will both be competing for assistance. Hey, I hope that you are right and I am wrong. But I don’t think so. One more thing. Canada is a big country, but look at a population map and see how people only live in small portions of the country. Most of this country is inhospitable for people. I live in a land locked region. And now they are bulldozing houses and replacing them with townhouses and condos. We are not used to that in Canada.

  33. Canadian Errante,

    I agree that there are significant differences in the anglophone world. In my experience (having travelled a fair amount), western Canada is pretty much like the western US. And, in general, Australia is more like the USA than any other place I’ve been. This could explain why Aussies and Yanks tend to love one another so much.

  34. Canadian Errante,

    I typically do not watch those shows you mentioned with exception of news. Call me lucky if you want. Even with news I watch CNN and FOX, than I add them up and divide in half. Thankfully now there is Internet, which helps me find answers I seek. Which also should be taken with the grain of salt.

    As to whether you should be depressed or not because of the kind of quality public demands I do not know.

    Fists of all, I am not even sure public demands it. Secondly, I do not think contemporary generations (children, parents and grandparents) are any different from what came before them. Form may be different but essence is the same.

    I am sure my parent’s approval of my interest in Hard Rock was no greater than that of my grand grandparent’s approval of my grandparent’s interest in Swing and so on.

    Just recently I heard the news, which may seam like comic but to me it is sign of things to come – AP said it will no longer cover exploits of Paris Hilton, however, they had to add ‘unless …’. Well, its a beginning.

  35. AP said it will no longer cover exploits of Paris Hilton

    Well hallelujah!!! I may end up subscribing to cable once again after all. The big networks seem to be getting the message.

  36. Nomad # 33: “Your too pessimist for Canada, such a huge country will find a way to assimilate them”

    What does being huge have to do with it? We have a huge land mass but a comparatively small population at 33,000,000 or thereabouts. (2006 census figures will be released later this eyar, so we’ll see where we are at.) And that’s very unevenly distributed.

    Like somebody said further up in the comments, a vast amount of our territory is uninhabitable, being not much more than pre-cambrian shield bedrock, mountain peaks and permafrost. Most new immigrants eventually end up in the big cities, where it just happens to be easier to find and live in little ethnic enclaves, which, by their nature, slow down the process of assimilation.

    One of the biggest problems we have in Canada is the failure of our country to recognize the credentials that many immigrants come to the county with. They are told, for example, that there is a shortage of people with this skill or that training, so those with those skills, etc. apply to immigrate, get accepted and then, once they are here, discover that the source of their training isn’t recognized by the Canadian institutions that regulate the various trades and professions. This sucks big time. We need to improve upon that.

  37. I have heard that I will get nothing from the government in my old age. I hope it isn’t true. And yes, I know that if I am to receive some assistance there has to be more people contributing than collecting. But if the people who come here receive more in the way of social benefits than they contribute than we will both be competing for assistance.

    I remember visiting Praha, shortly ( a couple of years) after the “wall of cold war” fall down, ; when visiting a museum I met a lady who came to me (she was about 70 years old, and still looking nice) and speak a very fluent french : she had been a kind of university teacher in “Napoleon code” 😛 for the little story her father was made Dr Honoris Causa of the Faculté de Droit de Poitiers before WWII. She was working in that museum as a guard and she was lucky to have found this job, cause of her former relations ; she said that her retirment treatment had not been paid since a few months, therefore she had to work.

    Yeah, Karen none goverment is safe of fearing a bankeroute, even in our “capitalistic countries”, cause there is a part of administration and security obligation that the State will always have to assure.

    May-be you will not beneficy of retirment ressources from your state ; but then, the poeple your complaining about will have less than you, they can’t afford a private assurance.

    Give them time to find their corners ; if not this generation who is working hard, the next, and the next will do ; your country is betting on future doing so.

    Louise, Yeah, I know that, but I ment that Canada has plenty of ressources , it is not a poor country, oil, gaz….gold and can support a& few “parasits” 😆

  38. Nomad, “supporting a few parasites” (your choice of words @ 43) isn’t what I would call “assimilating” them (your original choice of words @ 33). None the less, I do agree with you, that we could and should do a lot more, such as improving the chances of immigrants getting jobs in the professions in which they have the training, or at least being honest with them about their chances of obtaining such positions before approving their applications. That can create a lot of resentment and hostility among newcomers, if they think they’ve been duped and are being treated unfairly, and especially if they come from non-Western countries and the perception of “race” and “racism” also becomes a factor, which could well be one of the reasons many immigrants leave and head to the big cities.

    I have some familiarity with efforts to get immigrant workers in to communities on the prairies where skills are in big demand but short supply, and I am quite impressed with how they (the community leaders) are going about it. However, the recognition of credentials is something that needs nationwide attention by the federal government and national organizations.

  39. Louise, our government already recognizes the credentials of professional immigrants when they come from countries where the training is similar to ours. However, when standards in some other countries are not the same their credentials are not recognized and shouldn’t be. What is not fair is some of the testin

  40. I am not going to finish what I was saying. I thought about the fact that at least half of my friends are immigrants (from Mexico, Venezuela, Argentina, South Africa, Hong Kong etc.) and how some of them struggled to make it here and that I am so glad that they are my friends. I guess I sounded harsh before. Your are right Nomad, people need to be given a chance to make it here. I just don’t like anarchy and think that there needs to be a balance between what is good for Canada, what could be potentially good for Canada and what would be bad for us in the way of who is coming here. We need to be in control of our destiny, whatever it may be 🙂

  41. Karen, I understand the accreditation process and why some fall through the cracks. What annoys me is that people do come here on the understanding that their training will get them a good job. I admit my info is bit outdated, so perhaps the feds are doing a better job of informing prospective immigrants of the issues.

  42. Louise,
    I have read about that complaint and I think it is still a problem. It isn’t fair. If someone is moving here, is trained as an M.D. and think they will get a job as a doctor and then have to do something else that is not fair. I don’t know why the government doesn’t do something about this. I think there is a communication gap between the government and some of the professional colleges. Many different types of professionals (nurses, dentists and doctors) see immigrants as competition and make it almost impossible for immigrants to get accreditation even if they are prepared to study, write exams etc.

  43. Karen, I agree wholeheartedly, and it’s not just in the medical profession. It pisses me off, big time. Engineers, technicians, scientists, etc., training in universities other than the major recognized ones in Europe rarely have their training recognized. My ex came from Baghdad way back in the late 60s with training in building and construction. He had to arrange with the university in Iraq to send descriptions of the courses, etc. and once that process was complete, he was advised of what he had to take to get his engineering degree. It was only a few classes (two or three if I remember correctly) that he had to take. In otherwords, his diploma from Iraq was deemed to be of nearly equivalent status, so he did it. He took the courses at the U of Saskatchewan, got his professional engineer status and never looked back. He set himself up in business and has worked on hundreds of projects all over North America. He’s now a millionaire. I think it was easier back then than it is now.

  44. I have a couple of friends from Argentina. They are both civil engineers. I am told by them that it is impossible for them to be recognized as engineers here. I actually don’t think they immigrated as engineers though. Anyways, he is in the construction business as a site manager. He went back to school, but has to do a different type of job in his field. They have made it though. But I know it was very tough for them for many years.

  45. There we are. Very Canadian. Brief fuss about identity and then the field is left to the Canadians who actually worry about the Canadian experience and what it means for people who put their eggs in the Canadian basket. They chat politely. 😉

  46. 😉

    I’m amazed at how many of Sandmonkey’s and Big Pharaoh’s loyal readers are Canucks. We sometimes stay back and have our little caucus meetings, while everyone else moves on. 😉

  47. Yes, we do 🙂 Also, a study came out last week that said Canadians spend the most time on the internet, if my recollection is correct. I know Americans and Israelis ranked up there too.

  48. BTW, Canadienne Errante, I have an uncle (my mother’s brother) who was a prisoner of war in a German camp. He was a pilot and his plane was shot down over France. The family thought he was dead. He’s still with us, and is the last member of the family in that generation who is still alive. My dad was in the war, too, as a soldier, slogging his way through the Netherlands.

  49. Well, CE, not all that politely. Joining in that spirit, I’m wondering if Louise squats to ‘piss off’. But it is the ‘Karens’ who muddy the waters here, emoting with some viralence about all her perceived injustices. “Cat” is the spectacular one though, displaying all the honkie American/Canadienne memes, so prevalent in the US (one could wonder if she’s an immigrant from Down Warmer). Plainly disgusted being a Canadian, ill educated in North American history, defender of the aboriginal warlike tribes (slavery, cannibalism, and longish etceteras) she regurges what she’s seen or heard in poop (sic) culture, and some college edu or other.
    Most comment threads devolve into the inserts of wankers like these. The effort to read them all is a labour usually wasted, as here – though a few had something to say, especially the actual emmigrants, who may not be that at all, internet identity being what it is. G

  50. Last time I looked I wasn’t living in Cuba, North Korea, Gaza, Saudi Arabia, Egypt….You get the picture. My thought are my thoughts and I am free to voice them, for now “Gerry”. I actually think it is the “thought police” who are the wankers, Ger Bear 🙂

  51. Er, couldn’t make it out actually myself. Kind of rude for a Canadian in public, though he did spell “labour” the characteristic way… “Wanker” not particularly Canadian…more a British word… “Honkie” a strange word in Canada, where “WASP” and “caker” are more frequent insults… “College” a more American word, since in Canada we go to university… Curious. Well, that’s the internet for you.

  52. The problem within Canada isn’t the immigration of Arabs, or Egyptians, the problem lies within the fact they are Islamic FIRST, then Canadian. They hold no loyalty to this country whatsoever. Canada knows many Muslims living in this country have obvious ties to terrorist groups abroad and out of “political correctness” we willingly turn our eyes away from what’s right in front of us.

    Islam is not willing to “assimilate” with any host country.

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