Mahmoud Salem
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The leader of the NDP Parlamentarian bloc just called for the dissolution of the Peace Treaty and nuking Israel. Really??? We should go to War? Really? Wipe them out with the nukes we don't have? And that's the NDP position? OK! Just checkin! 

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59 thoughts on “Speaking of Al Aqsa Digging

  1. For christ sake, IT’S A RAMP PEOPLE!!!

    If the Jews wanted to destroy the Mosque, they could do it faster than you can say “What ancient giant Buddhist statues?”

    I swear, every little paranoia thing…

  2. haha who is the retard who wrote that news article. That might have came out from an MB member, but from the leader of the NDP? i doubt it , and if he did say so, Mubarak will kick his ass out of the party 😀

  3. @JORDAN: Its not “just a ramp” its an act at Antagonizing the Muslims….The Israelis KNOW this will drive the Muslims Crazy!

    I’m sure the Israelis arent’ going to harm the mosque (at least for now) BUT what they are doing is trying to get a Reaction out of the Muslims…and we all know that Arab-Muslims are great at Acting Emotionally and Stupid without thinking….By doing something stupid they will give Israel an Excuse to do whatever their little sneaky cunning plan is…

  4. Modern Pharaoh – not quite true.

    The original ramp up to the Al Aqsa mosque at the Mograbi Gate was built in Ottoman times, (on top, by the way, of what were once Mamluk houses, which are on top of crusader buildings, etc. etc. etc.). It was never very structurally sound and in 2004, after a series of minor earthquakes and tremors over the previous 500 or so years, it was declared unsafe. Israel immediately erected a temporary wooden bridge to carry worshippers (only Muslims) and tourists to the mosque. However, the plan was always to build a permanent ramp. This ramp is ONLY for the use of Muslim worshippers and tourists. Israelis do not go up there, by recommendation (not by law), and in accordance with police and military policy. (We all know what happened when a single, rather fat Israeli decided to flaunt this recommendation – that earned us an intifada).

    The Israelis do not intend to harm the mosque. If we did, as someone has already said, we’d simply go in and bomb it. You may not have noticed this, but we are not exactly known for our subtlety.

    What is more, the Waqf have known about the plan to build this ramp since at least 2004, because the only other alternative is to close the Mograbi Gate entirely.

    No. This is not Israel trying to get a reaction out of the Muslims. Firstly, we don’t need to try so hard to attract Muslim attention. We certainly don’t need to go to the extent of trying to build you a ramp so you can worship at your holy places. No. This story was simply grasped at, in a desperate attempt to stop the bloodshed in Gaza. When in doubt, throw in the JOOOOZ. The Gazans seem to have been distracted from killing each other’s children, for now at least. Let’s see how long that will last …

  5. @ Modern Pharaoh “what they are doing is trying to get a Reaction out of the Muslims”

    Couple of things…

    1. If they wanted to do that, they would just draw some cartoons and save a whole bunch of money.

    2. I cannot for the life of me believe that Israelis are sitting around thinking “how can we make Muslims hate us even more”

    3. I hate to say this, but it seems that hatred for Israel is the only thing that unites the Islamic world. If there is a “cunning plan”, it would be divide and weaken, the exact opposite of what occurred.

    Either way, Israel gave in to violence and in my opinion, unreasonable emotional grievances. Way to set a precedent Israel! I am sure this will have no future consequences at all.

  6. Oh God, that makes sense. Let’s Nuke Jerusalem. The Jews won’t be bombing Al Aqsa. 100% guaratied.

    And seriously, Modern Pharaoh…”little sneaky cunning plans”? Wow, in the name of the Government of Incompetence, I’m flattered.
    Get real.
    The last time Israel was capable of those was what? the ’70s? And I’m just going on hearsay here.
    At the rate this is going Egypt will have nukes before they manage to build that stupid bridge.

    Maybe they should print giant posters, you know: Al Aqsa here… bridge there.
    Oh hell, who am I kidding. Who’d believe that Zionist propaganda anyway?

  7. “If we did, as someone has already said, we’d simply go in and bomb it.”

    I suppose Israel could get some Shia terrorist to bomb it. But what’s the point???

    What I think should happen now is a special session of the Israeli parliament. The threat of an Egyptian nuke destroying the Al-Aqsa mosque cannot be ignored.

  8. Anyone else think it was a nice touch for Modern Pharaoh to use himself as an object example of his generalization about Muslims?

    And MP – if the muslim and arab world are really that stupid and irrational? Then screw it – there’s no chance for peace anyway, so Israel may as well just give up on that and do whatever the hell it wants.

  9. Too me..there are just two very simple things involved:

    1. Cynical incitement and there is nothing new about some of these guys stirring folks up at any excuse…

    2. Irrational emotion and ignorance. First Israel is always accused of being this big powerful bully…but then they can’t figure out how to destroy a building? I guess they will build the bridge and then pull on it real real hard?

    By the way..the Arabs have done their own excavations in the past…trashed archiolgocial treasures and potentially weakened the Western Wall. There is nothing new about these arguments…but this is hyperbole out in the zone of the Mohamed cartoons.

    In America…we say “any excuse for a party”…with the Palestinians..”any excuse for a riot or a Jew-hate session”.

  10. Geez, What is this? some kind of Zionist pro-party. …

    The Muslims don’t want the ISRAELIS to build a stupid Ramp at our mosque..Thats it!

    I swear “THE CANCER OF MIDDLE EAST” Since that countries inception and the Problems have been non-ending.!

    This isn’t an Israeli-Palestinian Issue when it comes to Al Aqsa, this is something dealing with ALL muslims!

    Once again just goes to prove how Cunnning that Israeli Goverment is and how Simple the Arab mind is! Were all in LA LA land if we think there wil ever be peace in the MID-EAST!

  11. Modern pharoah: “The Muslims don’t want the ISRAELIS to build a stupid Ramp at our mosque..Thats it! ”

    And you think we like that you built a mosque right on top of our holy site?

    Typical muslim. Doesn’t show respect for anyone else and in return demands the world to bow down and kiss his feet.


  12. Ahem. Modern Pharaoh, we try to avoid this kind of talk on this blog. I like SM’s posts, but a big reason why I find myself on his site time and again is because of the intelligent, well thought-out, rational comments that his readers make in discussions. Don’t try to spoil that.

  13. Modern Pharaoh, the Temple Mount is the single most holy site for the Jewish religion. It’s so holy, that Jews are forbidden by Rabbinical edict to set foot on it, because we’re not pure enough. So we pray at the Western Wall instead, it being the closest we can get to praying in our millenia-destroyed Temple.

    Now kindly take your head out of your arse, clean off all the ‘The Zionists are EEEVIL’ crap off it and start judging matters without a pre-defined prejudice.

  14. “Until the second message of “Modern Pharaoh” I was sure that he was spoofing an irrational Muslim extremist and everyone did not catch the satire. I can’t believe that he really is a 100% idiot!”

    I believe so as well. The “…” seemed to imply a :)~ I think being jumped on with both feet as it were kind o pissed him off!

    geez given our host’s sense of humour you’d think that visitor’s would be open to sarcasm!

  15. The peace treaty between Israel and Egypt is still in effect even though it doesn’t seem to have many followers at this point in time, but wouldn’t one party nuking the other party be a violation?

  16. WOW! Now i’m a, Anyone who doesn’t agree with Zionists is either labeled a Nazi, a Jew Hater, or an anti-semite..Blah blah blah! I have the utmost respect for the Jewish Religion! but despise Zionism! you guys ever hear of something called “occupied Territories”? OCCUPIED!! ever hear of “REFUGEE CAMPS”? Quit denying the suffering the Palestinians are going through under Israels hands!

    Before you accuse me of being a neo-nazi(lol) maybe you should read my blog and see how Pro-Jewish i am! Zionism is different from Judaism so quit trying to sum them up together!

  17. It’s not the ramp that’s the real problem. It’s the archelogical digging going on beforehand.

    We all know that anything that might in any way give any signs of the existence of the ancient kingdom of Israel (even though it’s existence is firmly established knowledge, supported by a wide variety of sources, that no serious historian doubts) drives Arabs up the wall.

  18. Yes MP, the 800,000 Jews that the Arab world kicked out do know what the term “Refugee Camps” mean. The difference is that the Jews decided that raising their grand children in the camps to further the “cause” was a dumb-ass idea… not to mention a tad inhumane.

  19. Modern Pharaoh, did you just sweep away a central part of my faith as ‘Zionist propoganda’, or did you simply skip my reply altogether?

    Respecting Judaism doesn’t meen refusing to understand what it is if it doesn’t suit your world view.

    Punique, you have a point. Too bad the Arabs who think we somehow need proof for this don’t realize that they’re living in some kind of dream world. Much in the same way Ra’ed Salah thinks we haven’t conquered the Temple Mount yet.

  20. @Punique: I didn’t know any arabs ever didn’t believe in the Existence of historic Israel..i mean it is in the Quran!

    @ Roman: Roman sorry i didn’t uderstand what you meant..I said i respect Judaism, but being a jew doesn’t mean you have to be a Zionist.

    @Jordan: The Jews leaving Arab lands had Israel to goto because the Zinoist movement was what Caused all this hate towards the Jews in Arab lands, Even Non_Zionist jews were unfortunatley persecuted. And i know many of the Arab Jews would have rather stayed in their home country 🙁 It was a sad domino Effect after the creation of Israel and the Lavon Affair (at least in Egypt)

    @Karn: Ok i snapped out of it..(lol) .its just i’m on my own blog Fighting with Islamic Extremist Idiots then i come here and i’m fighting with Hard Core Zionists.. I don’t understand why there has to be so much hate and Resentment everywhere 🙁

  21. Modern Pharaoh, my original reply to you was due to your reply to CD, where you implied that the Temple Mount’s importance to Judaism was something Zionists made up.

    And in your general accusations against Zionists you forget a huge factor which has been the central reason for a general refusing of the original UN partition plan by the Arab states, their declaration of war after Israel declared independance and the horrible conditions Palestinians later had in Arab states.

    Pan-Arabic nationalism.

  22. MP – “I said i respect Judaism, but being a jew doesn’t mean you have to be a Zionist” – no, it doesn’t, but who are you to decide? Don’t you think it’s up to us Jews to decide what our own politics are? Don’t you think it’s a little presumptuous for you to tell me what a Jew should or should not be? I don’t mean any disrespect, I just want to know why your view of what Judaism is and should be – as an outsider – purports to be more correct than mine – as an insider.

  23. Modern Pharaoh, you blame the expelling of the Jews from the Arab world because of the “Zionists” 1000’s of miles away, but you don’t blame the Palestinian refugees on the failed Arab invasion where the stated goal was to “drive the Jews into the sea”?

    It seems that Jews are responsible for the actions of both Jews and Arabs, and Arabs are responsible for nothing.

    Either way, isn’t it just easier to say their were refugees on both sides, close down all the refugee camps and call it a day?

  24. A nuclear bomb would not only destroy the al-Aqsa mosque; it would VAPORIZE it.

    Regarding the ramp. The ramp is a REPLACEMENT for the ruined earthen ramp that was built by the OTTOMANS. It’s the only way to access one entrance to the Temple Mount, which otherwise is 2 stories up in the air and totally inaccessible to anyone who does not have wings.

    However, there are laws in Israel that state that before such works can be carried out in areas with rich archaeological history, there MUST be an archaeological investigation of that location. The law is NOT specific to this location, and this is not the first time that people (Jews, Muslims, whatever) have grumbled about such requirements. But you live with it. Or rather, Israeli Jews live with it when they have to deal with it.

    But apparently Salah and Muslim governments don’t care about the truth, or history, or laws, or honestly. We’re dealing with another Muhammad Cartoons incident, in which a bunch of lies and half-truths and alot of hatred are deliberately fomented by Islamists and the whole Muslim world goes crazy instead of applying basic critcial thinking.

    The ramp and the archaeological investigation are NOT threats to the structural integrity of al-Aqsa, which is built on truly massive stone foundations.

    The people who are claiming this are simply trying to arouse hatred of Israel. These very individuals do this periodically, sometimes successfully, sometimes without success, in order to better control the Palestinian street (which had, frustratingly for them, gotten completely out of control) and the Arab street as a whole. Look back at their history and you’ll see that this is true.

    Recently, because that claim about the structural integrity of the mosque, which they had been shouting for a week, was convincingly disproven, Salah and company have discarded it and started claiming something else — anything they can think of that will foment hatred!

    @MP – I believe that you truly believe you harbor no biases against Jews / Jewish religion / Jewish right to have our holy places respected. You would probably arouse less antagonism – and learn more – if you approached statements about Judaism’s holiest site with an intent to learn what the place and the situation mean to Jews/Israelis and what Jews/Israelis know about the situation, rather than simply attacking.

    Also, please don’t automatically assume that Israel is being sneaky and trying to destroy your mosque. Israel is, after all, a country with a law that requires that before it can build a simple ramp, it must first conduct a detailed archaeological survey to make sure that no shred of history associated with that site – Muslim, Byzantine, Jewish or paleolithic – gets destroyed or lost. That is NOT a country that goes around, ummmm, “nuking” ANYONE’S historically vital sites.

    @ other folks: Calling MP a neo-nazi was more than a bit extreme. It’s up to all of us to maintain civility. Everyone missteps occasionally. Give him the benefit of the doubt. If he continues to post and you see a trend in his comments, that’s one thing. If not, be a little less quick to jump on him.

  25. Zvi, I think that MP jumped at my intervention, which (if he cared to read a Zionist) is pretty clear that “anyone who uses the word “cunningly” is a neo-nazi OR has watched too much Arab media”

    I think that MP thinks that to be a Nazi is bad. That is good to know, because the Palestinian leaders at the time of the UN partition thought that to be Nazi was good. Nasser himself had Nazi friends.

  26. From things that MP has said, e.g. in his blog, it’s clear that:

    * He’s NOT hostile to Jews in general. He makes a point of championing coexistence between the Abrahamic religions and does not like the thought of Jews being mistreated by Arabs or others.

    * He simply doesn’t know a whole lot about Jews or Jewish history, including Jewish-Arab history (bit of a romantic streak in the latter area, I think), but he is not a person who refuses to learn.

    * Sadly, he doesn’t extend the same open mind to Jews in Israel that he does to the Jews elsewhere (views Israel as an oppressive force rather than seeing the reality).

    Too much Arab media and teaching? Possibly. Most Arabs hate Israel, but the Israel they hate doesn’t actually exist; it’s a mythical construct woven from an extremely selective sampling of information and misinformation combined with a heavy dose of manipulation and biased reporting. Hating Israel is as silly as hating Egypt or hating the USA.

    But I don’t believe that attacking him helps; he’s not malicious or crazy, nor is he trying simply to score cheap propaganda points. He doesn’t know.

  27. @Zvi, Thank you for your reply!! I never said Israel plans to Destroy the Al Aqsa mosque, i said, “i’m sure the ISraelis aren’t going to harm the mosque”. My point is its ANTAGONIZING, and they know it! and it upsets me, just as it upsets me that the Arabs will Ovreact like they always do!

    @Roman: i never said the Temple mount was something that ZIONISTS made up, nor did i imply it.. where did you see that? Again i am Muslim, and maybe you don’t know how close our religions are and how much the Quran talks of Israel and Moses in a positive way! anyone who even remotley thinks the Temple mount is made up is a moron. Its a holly place, that i respect.

    @Jordan: Unfortuatley YES i do think the creation of the Zionist STATE’s Backlash was the mistreatment of the Jews in Arab lands…its a known fact.

    and to anyone who thinks i don’t believe Israel has the right to exist, your Mistaken..Israelis have the right to exist and live in peace, but they don’t have the right to treat the Palestinians as they do! They don’t have the right to do what they did in Lebanon because of 2 soldiers (when they have thousands of Lebanese Prisoners..and this soldier kidnapping was always going on back and forth to negotiate releases) …Should Israel protect itself, YES ofcourse, the Palestinians have been resorting to rediculous means that only drive them farther from their goal, but WHY? They have been trying to get their dignity and land back for many decades, and have failed!

    My hope: is that 2 leaders from both camps with the views of Rabin and Sadat could rise in the mid-east!

  28. MP:”hey CD: Spare me your Zionist SOB STORY…next you’ll be bringing up the fucking holocaust!!”

    You’re the idiot who brought up the holocaust. Funny how muslims just can’t stay away from that one.

    Oh, and you’re just anti-zionist not anti-Jewish. Do you actually believe that load of crap?

    Spare me your Islamofascist sob story.


  29. Modern Pharaoh: It was replies #12 and #13. Mind you, both you and CD were using generalizations, insulting statements and being downright childish, so it was easy to misinterpet.

    As for Islam’s respect for Judaism, I know of it. But with your religious institution being as undermined by hate-filled, politically-minded fanatics as it is, this respect (which is mutual, by the way) is becoming rare.

  30. @CD: I love how you keep bringing “muslims’ into this…what exactly do you mean by “muslims can’t stay away from that one” Muslims or Arabs didn’t have a thing to do with the holocaust. And yes I am ANti_Zionist and not Anti_Jewish… Ps : Thanks for calling me an Idiot…i’m sorry for telling you to Eat a dick in my last comment, i meant to say Eat 2 dicks!!

    And isn’t the word Islamofascist too big for ya kid!? what exactly is an Islamofacist by the way? ….

    Before you talk your BS and call me an idiot and make accusations you should take a look at my blog and other comments on here!

  31. Well. of course Islam respected Jews. Except when they didn’t, like the pogrom in Tzfat in 1834 (more than half a century before the beginnings of Zionism) Or when they didn’t intervene, like in the Damascus blood libel of 1840. And that was only when the Jews behaved.

    Anyway, I say bygones be bygones. But then, let us leave in peace, stop pretending that you care about the Palestinians when you don’t, dismantle the UNRWA, give citizenship to the Palestinians living in your countries and normalize relations with Israel. And you will see how fast we will more dismantle settlements and fix permanent borders. There will be no peace if we are told constantly that we are evil. I am sorry about the propaganda that you probably swallowed. I grew up under a dictatorship myself, that once banned all music in English! But try to reach out. Calling the Holocaust a “Zionist sob story” is not the way to do it, you poor idiot.

  32. @Fabian: I didn’t grow up in a dictatorship..i live in the USA! and i never called the Holocaust a Sob Story, read my comment again.. you little sensitive sissy! Geez, talking to little Zinoists is like walking on Egg Shells! And i love how you guys resort to calling names when you realy have no leg to stand on! Its a waste of time even responding to a bunch of One Sided Extremists like you… At least i say the Israelis deserve to live in peace, but Not build settlements…your likes just ignore all those rediculous things done to the Palestinians..but whatever!

  33. MB: “And i love how you guys resort to calling names”

    MB: “you little sensitive sissy!”

    MB: “EAR CD: Eat a dick! Thank you! ta ta”

    So, you accuse others of name calling but are guilty of it yourself. Very hypocritical.

    Since you live in the U.S. Do you ever feel guilty that you are occupying native land? Of course not.

  34. “@Zvi, Thank you for your reply!! I never said Israel plans to Destroy the Al Aqsa mosque, i said, “i’m sure the ISraelis aren’t going to harm the mosque”. My point is its ANTAGONIZING, and they know it! and it upsets me, just as it upsets me that the Arabs will Ovreact like they always do!”

    How, exactly, is rebuilding a ramp “antagonizing”? How, exactly, is an archaeological dig not on the temple mount “antagonizing”?

    Are you suggesting that Israel should have anticipated that someone looking to stir up trouble would LIE about the consequences of its actions? What, exactly, does that say about those people (and those who listen to them)? And why, exactly, do you think Israel should cater to people like that?

  35. MP,

    Thank you for being the bigger person.

    It’s too easy to get upset and insult one another.

    You’re right. Arguing is stupid and pointless.

  36. Long time lurker and I just want to respond to the assertion by MP that Israel holds thousands of Lebanese prisoners. This is simply untrue. while hardly the most reliable source, I believe the below wikipedia article is accurate as of prior to the summer war. Hezbollah claimed four prisoners (including Samir Kassir) and Israel claimed three.

    To secure the release of those three or four prisoners this past summer, Hezbullah killed three Israeli soldiers and kidnapped two others, who may or may not be alive, because, unlike the Lebanese prisoners in Israel, Hezbullah refuses any visits or to even confirm their condition.

    To be clear, this post is not intended as a broad comment on the manner in which Israel conducted the summer war, but merely to correct an incorrect statement and place it in proper context.

    If you want to find 1000’s of Lebanese prisoners in a foreign nation, look East to Hezbullah’s ally, Syria.

  37. Of course it is Samir Kuntar I meant to refer to. Samir Kassir was the Lebanese Patriot and journalist killed by the Syrians for his outspoken support of March 14. Kuntar is the child butcher who smashed the skull of a young girl after killing her father in front of him and invading the families apartment leading to the accidental smothering of the other daughter. Of course Kuntar was given a trial, has had visits from the outside, and is, even now, able to take college classes. He was never a member of Hezbullah.

  38. Indeed. Hezb also have no mandate from the Lebanese government to remain armed and continue the “struggle” against Israel, so what they are doing is effectively destabilizing Lebanon to serve a foreign power, Iran. One might criticize Israel’s response to Hezb, and I’m certainly of an opinion that the war was extremely heavy-handed, and should have focused on Hezb’s source of money and arms (Syria) rather than creating fertile ground for Hezb’s increase in power, but I do not see Hezb’s actions as justified in any way from a from a LEBANESE perspective.

  39. Well, Modern Pharoah, why not act like an old pharoah and fix the dam ramp yourself? If it’s been a wreck as I think someone said for two hundred years and Israel’s only been around as long as I’ve been alive, they proably figured, well, hell, we’ll fix it ourselves. Be grateful they don’t send you the bill. But, then the Jews do spend a lot of time fixing things up. Now, as I continued along with this thread I see you’re here in the US. God, that’s scary. Please tell me you’re no where near Philadelphia. We’ve been watching and we’ve had plenty of instructing on what to look out for.

  40. @John, I’m not even gonna waste my breath arguing with a Biggot! Abviousley your “White Trash” upbringing doesn’t allow you to put 2 and 2 together! 😉 Your one load your mother should have swallowed!!!!

  41. MP you’re showing your ignorance and your inability to spell again. From an impartial observer’s viewpoint, you’re going down hard. Maybe there are some tiny little things the Arab states could do to help ease the suffering of the Pals? Any ideas, suggestions,………. anything? ……………. Bueller……………. Bueller……………. Bueller…………….?

  42. this isn’t a spelling B competition

    You’re correct, thank goodness I have spell check or I could fall victim to my own petty complaints~ LOL

    I do see a lot of passion in you’re arguments, one of the most difficult things to do when one has passion about a subject is to be far enough removed to see valid points of concerns from BOTH sides of the fence. There is quite a bit of hyperbole and irrelevant data on this subject. In a free society its up to the individual to cipher through and rate information as truthful and worthy or less than truthful and not so worthy.

    I swear “THE CANCER OF MIDDLE EAST” Since that countries inception and the Problems have been non-ending.!
    Once again just goes to prove how Cunnning that Israeli Goverment is and how Simple the Arab mind is! Were all in LA LA land if we think there wil ever be peace in the MID-EAST!

    Little biased don’t you think? The Arab nations have figured out they cannot defeat Israel militarily so they try to use cunning and black propaganda to accomplish their political aims. That is where the simple Arab mind that you mentioned comes into play, they believe the crap these conflict mongers spew forth. This ranting by Muslims is no different than the cartoons in the Danish newspaper. No one said a word when the exact same cartoons were printed in Egypt years before. But then an orchestrated and intentional frothing of the masses began by the powers at hand when the same cartoons appeared in a Christian country. The rebuilding of the ramp has been in the media for years, all sides agreed it needed to be done, there are archaeologists from both faiths present during the limited excavations. There are multiple cameras that film 24/7 at the dig that can be accessed by the Internet to make sure no trickery goes on.

    From a Yahoo news article:
    “They film all angles of the works so people can view what’s going there all hours of the day,” she said. “The works do not go anywhere near any holy site and everybody can see that from the cameras.”

    This is a simple municipal improvement but its going to elevated into a major conflict because of ignorance nourished by black propagandist leaders that take advantage of simple folk who will end up bearing the burden of reprisals if there are any. It’s a suicidal cycle generated by people who will never have to suffer the consequences of their folly. This is not a cunning conspiracy by the Israeli government designed to damage the mosque or humiliate Muslims. I understand that the Arab world is conspiracy driven as a result of their feelings of frustration and impotence from not being able to improve their lives over generations. That is not because of the Jews or because of the creation of Israel regardless of the never ending propaganda telling you so. It is because of leaders who use their people and their well being as pawns in an international game of suffering and pity. You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can’t fool all the people all of the time

  43. as a christian zionist I AM HARD CORE! I want Israel to run the PALESTINKIANS into the red sea and the burn that butt ugly mosque to the ground!

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