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0 Reports of an Israeli massacare of egyptian POW in 1967 war thanks to an israeli documentary raises the ire of the egyptian government and media , and naturally the egyptian people as well, since, you know, Israel is involved. ("Constitutional ammendments? What constitutional ammendments? The Israelis killed our boys almost 40 years ago!") They all called for the peace treaty to be scrapped or nullified, one nasserite newspaper "Al Karamah" actually went as far as demanding the killing of the israeli ambassador in retribution. Mubarak, for his part, demanded punishment for those who committed those atrocities. Go Mubarak, defender of egyptians!
The Israelis, for their part, are confused, since the documentary doesn't show the killing of any egyptian POW's in it at all. Some started wondering whether the whole thing is a made up crisis!
And now, another Israeli TV documentary- in response to the first documentary- claims that the egyptians killed dozens, if not hundreds, unarmed Israeli POW's in the 1973 war.
I can't wait for the Israelis to start demanding the head of our ambassador on a stick and the scraping of the peace treaty with Egypt. Can you?
Fuckin Hell..
English
Been in Egypt many times. Almost never met a single individual defending the so called “peace” treaty between their country and Israël…
“I can’t wait for the Israelis to start demanding the head of our ambassador on a stick and the scrapping of the peace treaty with Egypt. Can you?”
Do you really think this would happen? I don’t.
I have organized one rally in Israel. If you want I can try to find some crazy Israelis to demand that. I know lots of crazy Israelis. But I don’t think I know any that crazy though…Next time
Well the 1973 killings of Israeli POW’s did actually happened… tortured too…
But in all honesty what is the real benefit of a peace treaty with Egypt? it does nothing good to Israel… There are no reparations, the propaganda is still in place as vile as before, no friendship, business is still problematic, etc. so whats the point? another tourism spot for Israelis? Im sure they could live without going on tours to Egypt…
But in all honesty what is the real benefit of a peace treaty with Egypt? it does nothing good to Israel…
No, of course, a war every 6 years is very good to israel, a generations of people who have grown on wars is very good to israel…are you an israeli? because if you are not, I invite you to come here and defend on our country every few years…it is nice to see other fight against each other right, its like an intresting game…
I imagine POW’s routinely are mistreated in any war…wrong..but a reality.
I do remember years ago reading an interview with an Israeli POW that was held for many months in Egypt.. He reported that they used to blindfold him..put him against a wall and then fire near his head…fun and games I guess. I have also heard stories of some Egyptian solider POW’s that were shot…but not part of any policy…a terrible event (if true) that happenend in the heat of the war…not after.
And bringing up this stuff serves the purpose of???
It has been 43 years…should we be shocked that young kids do terrible things during a war? I don’t know…but i sure think there is not enough focus on righting all the problems with have CURRENTLY…
SM, sorry to be repetitive, but this is on topic.
The link I passed you regarding this subject doesn’t belong to the same documentary. I read it a while ago, and I had to do some searches on Google to find it again. Anyway, here it is again, related to the treatment of Israeli POWs. It is interesting, they are audio clips in Hebrew with English translation on the side. Best,
Fabian
http://www.isracast.com/yk/stage.swf
“But in all honesty what is the real benefit of a peace treaty with Egypt? it does nothing good to Israel…”
Are you an israeli? if you are, so this is the good things that the peace with Egypt bring us:
No wars every 10 years, no army culture in the israeli life, less taxes to pay for the govermant, and the most obvious thing…NO MORE WARS WITH 2000 CASUSlLTIES AND MORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
or this isn’t good enough for you?
And if you are not israeli, so come here, and keep fighting for the state of israel because of the honur and stuff, and stop watch it from the side like it was some game for you to see people fight each other….
Considering that in Iraq they’re killing each other over shit that happened 700 years ago, 40 years is, like, yesterday or something.
Oh, Sandmonkey, if you really can’t wait, OK, I’ll do it, on behalf of myself and my fellow Israelis:
I demand the head of the Egyptian ambassador on a stick! Rip up that peace treaty! Let’s got to war! Egypt is goin’ down!
Uh, not really. But can I have a door prize anyway?
Gentelmen, There is no [Peace Treaty Case] here, There is no [POW Violation Case] here, now body in Egypt would even hear about Isreali TV documentary unless deliberately mentioned by local Egyptian media.
It is all nothing but another decoy to the masses!
My cousin was in the IDF in the 1973 war. His unit (around 50 soldiers – I’m not sure what to call a unit of that size) was ambushed by the Egyptians, with all of the soldiers either killed or wounded. Rather than collect the wounded as POWs, the Egyptians just walked among them putting a bullet into the head of any Israeli who looked like they might survive. My cousin, fortunately, had severe chest trauma and did not look like he’d survive, I guess, as he was the only Israeli soldier they didn’t bother to kill.
So, on his behalf, I now request the Egyptian ambassador’s head on a stick.
What’s with the dumb little dots over the e in Israel, Joan. Can’t think of a new way to equate Israel with the German Nazis? Why don’t you try putting them over the e in PalEstine. It would be so much more apropos 🙂
Over the past few years, many egyptians (muslims and christians) are going to work in Israel. They report that they are very happy, fairly treated and respected. So, basically, the egyptian government is pissed off at that.
you know the rest of the story…
Egyptians are working in Israel? How? In which industries? Sounds intriguing – does anyone have more details/links on that?
“What’s with the dumb little dots over the e in Israel, Joan.”
Is that a joke? The dots mean that you have to pronounce the two vowels separately, i.e. not as a diphtong. It’s “Isra’el”, not “Israel”.
Flint you are obviously not an Israeli or it would be crystal clear to you why having a peace treaty with Egypt is important and what the benefits are as a good number of people have pointed out. It would be peachy if we could get one of those treaties with Lebanon as well.
Andrew,
Yes, the diacritical marks should ordinarily be there (over the “e”) to denote the pronunciation of the second vowel independently of the first. However, “Israel” is a proper noun, and therefore the State of Israel can (in a corporate sort of way) choose whether or not to put them there. I have never seen any official Israeli publication which includes the diacritical marks, so, in this particular case, they don’t belong.
Personally, I object to them being called “dumb little dots”. But that’s another story.
I’m also curious how Joan got them there in the first place.
bj
Maybe you are not aware, Andrew, but people who put them in the word Israel do so for other reasons. Joan does it a lot and taken with the rest of her comments, the dots represent something else to me. Look a little deeper.
So, to summarize:
Egyptian gov’t thugs killing Egyptians continuously: OK
Israeli soldiers killing Egyptian soldiers 40 years ago during war: not OK.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I wish there would be also a normalization of relations between our peoples. Peace is good, but friendship would be better.
What good is the treaty? Better a cold peace than a hot war. I don’t need the Egyptians to love us here in Tel Aviv–so long as they keep their bombs on their side of the border and we keep ours on our side.
Subdued loathing beats violence any day.
Incidentally–Sand Monkey–I have been a lurker up to now but since I am commenting anyway–love your blog. And I have been to Cairo and it is a fantastic city. 🙂 The pyramids were kind of a bust (way overrated) but great chocolate and Khan aKhalili is amazing (chocolate and shopping–the key to any woman’s heart).
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Karen,
Here’s my best dumb look: :-()
I’m not aware of any deep significance to diacritical marks, but I’m interested to hear about it.
BJ (The shallow grammarian)
Jon, I am not a linguist but I can tell you that Israel is not a German word. Everyone know how to pronounce it when it is spelled correctly. My neighbour uses the umlaut in his name which rhymes with Israel, but his name is German. Anyways, read the comments made by people who put the dots over the word Israel. It is clear to me what they are insinuating. Joan does it all the time. So do others who have equated Israelis with Nazis. Does it make sense to you now?
Karen,
Oh. And here I thought it was being treated as an English word, in which case it would properly have a diaeresis over the e.
So the point is that Israel has a diaeresis over it’s e, therefore its attempts at self-defense in the face of Arab violence is as illegitimate as the horrors of the Holocaust which, by the way, never happened.
What I don’t get is that the diaeresis is not unique to German, but rather exists in a whole host of Indoeuropean languages (which, I guess ironically, Hebrew and Arabic are not). There is no special or unique relationship between the diaeresis and German. So if there is some moronic attempt to subtly imply that Israel is in some important way like the Third Reich (a completely idiotic comparison, of course), it only serves to highlight the linguistical unsophistication of the sophomoric scribe trying to make the all too clever insinuation. A cunning linguist? I think not. On the other hand, “Anti-semitie” was originally a German construction.
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“Maybe you are not aware, Andrew, but people who put them in the word Israel do so for other reasons.”
And you think there is value in acknowledging what they do and why?
“There is no special or unique relationship between the diaeresis and German.”
The dots to signify separate pronounciation of a second vowel do not exist in German, only in foreign words (mostly French such). German does, however, use two dots over vowels to signify umlauts of a, o, and u.
Hence two dots over an e might look “German” to an American, but not to anybody who can read German.
Andrew,
I didn’t say there was value in what they do. I just don’t like it and pointed that out. The same way you are always engaging those with whom you don’t agree. Okay?
I still want to know how they get the dots there. I need to know so I can cleverly add them to “Palestine”, completely crushing my ideological opponents’ rhetoric.
I wouldn’t mind knowing either, BJ. If you figure it out, let me in on it too please.
can I help ? we put the dots : Israël… Ismaïl, Inuït, Taïga, Astéroïde… aigu but aigüe (feminine) over vowels “e, i, u” too, that signifies the first vowel must be separatly prononced.
in German the umlaut over u is ment to differencie the prononciation of “u” = “oo” (latin prononciation) from “u” =”ü”, more guttural, gut (well, good)die güte (goods), böse (naughty), I don’t find the equivalent sound in english, in french = “eu”
otherwise we have “é, è, ê”, these accents give a colored sound to the “e”
http://face2faceproject.com/
the video
I believe the technique for producing the diacritical mark (what BrooklunJon is calling a diaeresis, what Nomad is calling an umlaut and what Andrew Brehm is calling dots, is to hold down the following keys, with the sqaure brackets [ ] designationg the individual keys:
[alt] (in Windows)/[option} (in Mac)+[u], then [e]
So:
ä, ë, ï, ö, ü, ÿ.
It’s difficult to do this on keboards marked with a languange set that’s not designed to produce it, hence my mistaken [option} above, instead of [option].
I believe the technique for producing the diacritical mark (what BrooklunJon is calling a diaeresis, what Nomad is calling an umlaut and what Andrew Brehm is calling dots, is to hold down the following keys, with the sqaure brackets [ ] designationg the individual keys:
[alt] (in Windows)/[option] (in Mac)+[u], then [e]
So:
ä, ë, ï, ö, ü, ÿ.
This only works with volwels. Try other letters and the keymappings won’t work.
SM,
my dream is that I wake up tomorrow and read on yahoo that theIsraeli Army has invaded the Sinai and threatened Cairo with complete annhiliation if the Egyptian Army does not vacate back to Sharm Al-Sheik within 2 hours.
Peter,
Diacritical mark is the generic term, in English at least, for any doo-dad being added to a letter, such as a diaeresis, an accent, a tilde, or any of the other knick-knacks the French are fond of adding onto their letters. The double dots, used to connote pronunciation of the second vowel is a specific type of diacritical mark, a diaeresis. The umlaut does not appear in English – we figure out how to pronounce our vowels without any help. Incidentally, the umlaut’s dots are usually a little closer to the vowel than the dots of the diaeresis, though good luck telling them apart on the basis of how far they are from the letter.
Trying the alt+u technique has generated no dots on my screen, but let’s see if they show up when the comment gets posted: a e i o u and sometimes y.
we figure out how to pronounce our vowels without any help.
I was told some even could wistle them (euh, the Canarians :lol:)
english is more a language to be supposely spoken than written
french is supposed to be a written language very precise and logical, that grammarians set on in 17th and 18 th centuries ; the difficulty is how to manage to write french with a fair orthograph when your not an “elite” 😆
what the germans call “umlaut”, the englishs “dots” , we call them “the trémas” (and may-be I made a mistake in writing the word, dont remember if trema got a double dots , so far I am too lazy to check it) 😀
if you put an “accent circonflexe” on “e” –> “ê”, that meens that the language has evolved : previously, the sound was “es” ;
ex : forêt = forest ; maître = maistre ;
or to differencie the signification of 2 similar prononced words
a (has) from à (at) ; ou (or) from où (where)
grasse (fat) from grâce (holly graciouseness) ; bat (beat) from bât (a donkey with a heavy charge)
the “é” is equivalent to “y” ex. proprie”té” = proper”ty”… …
eh eh, I have to check back for more exemples
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BJ,
It’s possible that the keyboard mapping you’re currently using does not contain the extended set of Latin characters. Rather than the standard Windows keymapping (which I’m assuming you’re using, based on the alt+u reference – we Mac users would normally say option-u), you might see if the Keyboard control panel (whatever it’s called in your version of Windows) includes either an Extended Latin set, or better yet, a Unicode keymapping.
Unicode is a standard that incorporates text and symbols from most writing systems: not just Latin, Cyrillic, Arabic, Chinese and Japanese, but Korean, Thai, mathematical characters, Greek, Hebrew, Amharic, Thai, Cherokee and and a wide range of of languages/symbol systems as well, so that you can get the symbol sets by using a standard computer keyboard. Most modern operating systems include a Unicode keymapping, either as part of the default set or as an add-on. If you don’t have a Unicode set built in, you may need to supplement an added Unicode keymapping with additional fonts, so that you can actually see what you’re doing. In my case, Mac OS X automatically installs as a mutilingual/multiscript operating system. I normally install all the optional fonts and turn Unicode on, just so that if I happen to land on a non-Latin website, I’ll know that what I’m looking at is a non-Latin website, and not a bunch of ASCII gibberish.
Unfortunately, my Windows XP box is busted at the moment, so I can’t check for accurate Windows-ish names; but I hope this helps.
http://unicode.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode
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who cares about the dots. joan is an anti-semite that doesnt have the guts to admit it so she hides behind little tricks like this. nothing new.
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[…] What s with the dumb little dots over the e in Israel, Joan. Can t think of a new way to equate Israel with the German Nazis? Why don t you try putting them over the e in PalEstine. It would be so much more apropos. More [ ] – More – […]
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