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Where the christians are fleeing and the Shia are slicing the forheads of their children open.
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At least the Shi’as aren’t blowing up mosques and murdering scores of worshippers.
FYI, Christians in the Phillipines also mutilate themselves too.
As do Buddhists in Southern Thailand. Seems to be a subclass of humans that think that sort of thing is a good proof of piety…
South America ropes with metal ends.
ya we really need to get the gap countrys into core countrys just maybe these folks will have something better to do.
I dont know like Go to a Library.
feels so good.
WRT the Christians, as usual the Jews are the Canary in the coal mine.
Or, as Winnie Churchill said,
Appeasement is the idea that if you feed the alligator he will eat you last
Seriously, why don’t they all move to Israel?
Iran probably is the worst thing to happen to Arab Shias culturally in the last hundred years. Saudi Arabia and a big list of Egyptians comes next.
And please do not pretend like cutting up little kids is some kind of “normal” Shia practice.
She puts it nicely:
“Hind Abinabi, a 52-year-old Shiite woman and mother of four, said to maim children was not only cruel, but also against the religion. “When the rest of the world is going to the moon, look where these people are — still drawing blood from their heads,” she said.”
“Where the christians are fleeing”
Nothing new. In fact, it’s the last couple of decades when the portion of muslims who also immigrate out of the region has been increasing. Before that, the ratio of Christians leaving compared to muslims leaving was a lot higher.
Especially as far as Lebanon goes, Christians have been migrating at a high rate (definitely higher than the rest) at least since the early 1840s. That is, some 100 years before there even was an independent state called Lebanon.
Well… at least they don’t have to tolerate seeing Britney Spears plastered to the cover of every magazine between San Francisco and New York. I mean, that has to be worth a few bandages on the forehead right?
I kid, I kid… kind of.
@puniqe As far as i know,Christians controlled everything Lebanonuntil the civil war in the seventies! I might be mistaken though! please correct me:)
Well, is circumcision less brutal? The Middle East and the United States carry out this procedure on most of its boys. It is just the tradition and now proven to be effective in the prevention of the spread of AIDS and HPV. I can’t see any point to continually splitting open one’s head for faith, but I respect their right to do it. It is disturbing to see them do it to screaming babies for no real benefit. Some of my “new age” girlfriends explode in condemnation when they hear I plan to circumcise every one of my boys when I have them. They think it is cruel. I think it is cleaner. Besides, it seems to be the tradition and a working one.
Circumcision is cruel? I have absolutely no recollection of the event, nor any lingering side effects. Just my 3 cents from the peanut gallery.
Of course circumcision is cruel; it’s cutting skin off a baby. I once attended a Jewish bris ceremony, and I will never forget how the poor little boy screamed. I cannot fathom how or why human beings started looking at their genitals and thinking,”We ought to cut some of that off!”
Regarding STD protection, have you heard of something called a condom?
Circumcision has proven to be more hygienic and healthier than the alternative. And I second Jason on having absolutely no recollection of the event. So yay for circumcisions..
…it may be a little painful, but to quote a friend of mine “circumsized penises are much prettier than uncircumsized penises”. I agree with her 100%.
As Elaine said on Seinfeld, the circumcized penis has much more personality.
Melissa, I can appreciate your point. But there is something, somehow, very different about removing a little foreskin from a child too young to form a memory of it, than very publicly slicing a child’s head with a sword and getting blood all over everything. It rather desensitizes you to violence and bloodshed, in a way that a bris just doesn’t.
I think ultimately that’s the revulsion people have with it. The blood-soaked parades of people. Meanwhile, we get bent out of shape about violence in cartoons.
Amanda,
Of course circumcision is cruel;
How do you know it’s cruel? I have no recollection of it either. Most males in the US are circumcised… are you saying we’re all walking around with childhood trauma?
I cannot fathom how or why human beings started looking at their genitals and thinking,”We ought to cut some of that off!”
Well… that’s not what circumcision is 🙂
I would certainly object to hacking off part of my equipment! I need all I have!
But the foreskin is a protective sheath that became obsolete when humans started wearing clothes.
Regarding STD protection, have you heard of something called a condom?
There are other health issues associated with the foreskin. But bottom line, I don’t see why anybody has a problem with circumcision, one way or the other. It’s not the big deal some “partisans” want to make of it. Have you ever heard a guy complain about being either circumcised or uncircumcised? I haven’t.
I agree with your point also BrooklynJon. Most young men are too young to remember it. I have heard of this being done to boys as old as 8 to 14 as part of a manhood ceremony. I guess that is the comparison I was trying to make, but it is an exception, not the rule, so I stand corrected. Amanda (haven’t you ever heard of condoms) will get you beat and raped if you are an African prostitute trying to feed yourself. The men consider it like asking them to wear a blindfold to a movie they paid for. I’m not saying that is right, but it is what it is. Change occurs over time. Dropping condoms out of planes upon the horny people of sub Sahara Africa isn’t necessarily going to end the AIDS epidemic there.
Jerry: Have you ever seen uncircumcised?
Elaine: Yeh, bleh… its not for me?
Jerry: Why not?
Elaina: There is no face, no personality!
As usual, Seinfeld leads the way in these complex issues 🙂
AS for Amanda’s rhetoric question where we got the idea from to do such a thing:
Genesis 17:10:
10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised.
… and just to be clear that God meant males regardless of parentage:
12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring.
So, let’s see, we came up with that crazy idea, almost 6000 years ago. Female circumcision is not in the Bible by the way. I think he was pretty clear that it wasn’t necessary to destroy the naughties on girls, because unlike male circumcision, that is what you are effecting in girls. Reminder to all well meaning men, a vagina is not an inside out penis. Totally different in every way. Just wanted to get that out there.
is it what happenis mean ?
http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0aaflagiv2.jpg
ok, ok, I am gone
Nomad:
is it what happenis mean ?
Well, sometimes yes. I don’t usually hang up this one though. Causes the seniors to run off the road. 🙂
I’ve watched a baby, with local anesthetic on the penis, sleep through a circumcision Modern medicine removes any cruelty at all in the procedure. And it is proven to prevent STDs. There’s my 2 cents.
nomad,
Where did you get that picture of me?
Suz,
A ritual circumcision is generally done without local anesthesia, but the baby is given wine, which pretty much acts like a general anesthetic. Evidently, I slept through mine.
bj
Melissa, 😆 you would have trouble then
BJon, I am a french spy and I find the evil wherever it hides 😆
Sacrebleu! You have blown my cover!
bj
Craig,
You haven’t heard men complaining about being circumcised? There are support groups and organizations dedicated to those traumatized by their circumcision. Some feel they are scarred for life because they are not “intact” or not “uncut”. They believe sex would be more enjoyable if they still had their foreskins (ugh). I have even heard of men stretching what they have left to appear more whole. You should look it up on the net. It is quite funny. I have a feeling that even if they had not been “cut” they would still have issues. These groups also want to ban circumcision. Mind you, when my boys were circumcised it did choke me up a little, poor things.
Karen,
These guys are a bunch of wankers. Trust me, your boys will love their stuff. And they’ll appreciate not having to be bothered with the memory of the procedure.
bj
Jon,
I know, believe me. I am not worried about my boys being unhappy missing that icky piece. I’m sure they will be able to tell that they are prettier without it 🙂
BJon
I got your photos, where do you want me to show them ?
one image
http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chatel1zf2.jpg
@ Brooklyn Jon
Name three things in common between Arabs and jews ……………
To Amre El-Abyad
1. They both get Familial Mediterranean Fever.
http://www.genome.gov/12510679
2. They both circumcise all males.
3. They both believe Pork is not kosher/halal.
I could come up with a lot more, just don’t have enough space. I guess a better question is:
What don’t they have in common?
What don’t they have in common?
the candelabrum 🙂
Don’t Arabs have candelabrum? I have a pair from my grandmother 🙂
amre,
I don’t get it. I that a joke? Or a serious question?
If it’s a joke, I’ll counter with my own personal favorite…
A peanut butter and jelly sandwich walks into a bar and orders a beer.
The bartender says, “I’m sorry. We don’t serve food here.”
I laugh out loud every time I tell it.
Okay…Arabs and Jews…
1) We dig falafel.
2) We shared some good times in Spain 600 years ago.
3) We think Britney Spears is a slut.
4) Bad noses.
amre,
Okay. Here’s another fave:
Two cannibals are eating a clown.
One says to the other, “Is it me, or does this taste funny?”
Nomad,
Wanna post the links? Or email to me?
I have them on my pictures library, I could email them to you, you can join me with my Gmail in my blog profile (mysoup)
blog profile?
Nomad,
I have a gmail.com account also. I bet you could guess what comes before the @.
ok
To be honest it took me 3 minutes to appreciate the first joke, but when i got it i burst out laughing…. the second one i got very quickly. well, frankly speaking, i’m not sure whether it was a serious question or not………..
But……. the Jews eat falafil? that’s really strange!
@ brooklyn Jon
Egyptian Jokes are too spicy, so i wont try to share one with. Why don’t you answer Melissa in norcal question?
amre,
Jews love felafel. And Shawarma. And humus and baba gannouj.
As far as Melissa’s question, I don’t know that I’m qualified to answer it.
Here is something that Arabs and Jews DON’T have in common. No offence Amre, it really isn’t intended for you 🙂
http://www.masada2000.org/nobel.html
That should be offense.
Karen,
Its’s just another aspect of the worldwide Zionist conspiracy. The Arabs owned the Nobel Prize back in the 12th Century, but the Jewish media has gone on a campaign to deny the existence of the Nobel Prize back then, just to make the Arabs look bad.
Jon,
It must be hard living in the A.P.U. You don’t know what is real, what is
surreal and what is a lie. It seems pretty scary to me 🙁
Karen,
It takes me back to Philosophy 203 (with Baas van Frassen – a righteous dude and terrific Philosophy professor). The question put to us was “How do you know that you’re not just a brain in a vat, connected to wires feeding you electrical impulses to make you think that there is a real world around you, when all there really is, is the vat and the wires?” I guess, basically the premise, more or less, of The Matrix.
The answer is that you can’t know for sure that the external world actually exists, or what it consists of. You can only guess based on the information that is getting fed into your brain.
Ultimately, if all your inputs suggest the same “reality”, you pretty much have no choice but to believe it. What amazes me is that there are people in that setting who figure it out. Like the Soviet Union citizens who realized that the depictions of the West had to be a sham, and staked their future on it by coming here.
It makes me wonder what’s in the mind of the average North Korean.
But it’s clear to me that, in large part, Arabs/Muslims and Jews are generally playing with a different set of “facts” and assumptions, and not merely applying different values to the same facts.
“Name three things in common between Arabs and jews ……………”
Amre,
That’s weird to come from someone who believes all semitic people are/were Arabs by definition.
Oh BrooklynJon 🙂 are you disagreeing with me 🙂 Stop being such a bully 🙂
Just joking ofcourse……and good luck to you on the other threads 🙂 You are a very smart guy and will soon realize the futility of what you are attempting:) I’m sure 🙂
Karen,
Thanks for the kind words! Maybe it’s my Philosophy training…I was taught to be polite but merciless in dissembling my opponent’s argument, and to expect the same from my opponent. See, it’s Baas van Frassen’s fault!
But besides that, when not on SM, I like to step on kittens and bunnies, so maybe I am a bully. 😉
bj
Karen, where did you get the “Twosret bot” program? I’ve been thinking of writing my own, but haven’t had time yet!
You are a keen observer, Craig 🙂
Karen
I was not offended! that is very true! The Arabs are at one of the lowest points of their history:)
@ Punque
With all due respect to Jewish and christian religons, it is wrong and unacceptable to use wholly books, in order to explain history of nations, politics and ethnology!
Brooklynjon
Arabs/Muslims and Jews are generally playing with a different set of “facts” and assumptions, and not merely applying different values to the same facts.
You are right. Ironically, both Arabs and jews share many values. And they tend to construct their facts in terms of their values, however those very same values are serving mutually exclusive ends!
The histroical and political facts are to a great extent obvious to those who really intereted to know them! But afterall, it is not about that:)
amre El-abyad Says:”With all due respect to Jewish and christian religons, it is wrong and unacceptable to use wholly books, in order to explain history of nations, politics and ethnology!”
I do not think so. Nor would any rational person. Why do you think that?
amre El-abyad Says:”You are right. Ironically, both Arabs and jews share many values. And they tend to construct their facts in terms of their values, however those very same values are serving mutually exclusive ends! The histroical and political facts are to a great extent obvious to those who really intereted to know them! But afterall, it is not about that:)”
Well it is more common for Arabs to construct their facts based on their values – there is a good book on Morocco which claims truth in Moroccan society is “situationally located” and subject to negotiation. In most cases the historical and political facts are know. But that does not stop people denying them – especially if they belong to, you know, certain Faith Communities. The debates with the “Islamophobes” are a good example of that – they all use the same set of facts, it is just that Muslims often deny they mean what they mean/
Amre, in the average Israeli town center, one can’t move 40 meters without finding a falafel, shawarma, or hummous stand. Or all three rolled into one. 😉
My personal favorite is a large lafa bread, first covered in a layer of tchina, various salads, and a little red s’houg.Then, over this should be put the finest shawarma a lamb could ever wish to be.
Roll the lafa, and do your very best to somehow finish the whole thing.
@ Roman mmmmm that’s sounds very delicious:)
Heigou
“I do not think so. Nor would any rational person. Why do you think that?”
Well, Religon and holly books are essential for fulfilling our spiritual needs and filling up gaps in our reality. They provide us with impulses, inspirations and comfort that help go on.They keep us grounded and rooted. Both history and politics belong to the realm of sciense, so using the Holly books for working with them would first and foremost, be unfair and, indeed, destructive to their credibilty. Within the contexts of a scientific history and politics, religous texts are more or less folk tales. Mixing them with sciense would serve only to creat a digital terrible, deformed horrible Dragon, a sort of a new age crazy cult!
Besides, relying on holy books to justify political decsision must inevitably lead to conflicts. As, there is absolutly no way whatsoever one can prove to proponents of another faith that [their] faith is completely false, and that they should rather adopt the other faith.
Regarding circumsion: Jehovah God made circumsion mandatory for Abraham and all males (free and slave) in his household in 1919 BCE.
The Egyptians, Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites and Samaritans practiced circumcision. However, the Assyrians, Babylonians, Greeks and the Philistines did not.
Interestingly, Moses reglected to circumcise his son. God’s wrath was incurred until his wife Zipporah did it for him.
“@ Punque
With all due respect to Jewish and christian religons, it is wrong and unacceptable to use wholly books, in order to explain history of nations, politics and ethnology!”
Hebrew is a semitic language. I’m not talking about religion.
Regarding circumsion:When my first son was born we were asked to sign a waiver disclaiming any ownership of said discarded tissue. When the nurse brought us the form we signed it and asked, “what will happen to the removed tissue?” The nurse looked puzzled and said she didn’t know. I said, Well I’ve heard that in the Orient there are children born without eyelids and the removed foreskin is frozen and flown there to repair their of eye coverings. The nurses was amazed and said she had always wondered what they did with them. Then I said, “of course the children they preform this on always turn out a little cock-eyed!” My wife groaned and smirked at the same time, evidently the nurse didn’t get the joke (yes I know, poor joke). A few minutes later the Doctor in charge of the hospital that night came in and asked me in a serious tone what happened to the discarded foreskin. Well, I couldn’t resist, so I told him the same story. I’ll never forget the look on that Doctor’s face when he realised the nurse (and myself) had wasted his time. He smmiled, but was not amused! My wife still groans when I tell the story!!!
tedders,
I suspect they get incinerated now. But in the old days before viral tissue cultures, the foreskins were used to grow viruses to be used in vaccinations. I believe the Salk virus was developed in this way. I like to think that mine was my first contribution to health care.
bj