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0 Ok, I personally can't say that upon hearing the news of Saddam's execution, my first reaction was happiness that Justice has finally been served. The Butcher of Baghdad finally paying for what he did. That's a good thing. But…
Ok, so the timing made me a bit queasy. To kill him on the feast of sacrifise is disturbing and offensive. Think of it as Hitler getting crucified on Christmass Morning. Not exactly celebratory, is it?
And then I saw the video of his execution, and it just turned my stomach: They pulled the lever as before he finished the recitation of faith, as if to gurantee that he doesn't go to Heaven on something. The people executing him were screaming to Hell all the way through, and then started screaming Muqtada's Al Sadr's name afterwards. It looked like A Shia lynch mob more than anything. Add to this the fact that the people executing him, supposidly representing the legitimate authority of the Iraqi government were hiding their faces under masks but had the courage to chant to hell as they killed him, well, yeah. Not good.
This wasn't a professional execution of a man by the power of a state. This was personal. I am more and more convinced that the story that the US tried to delay the execution for 2 more weeks so it wouldn't co-incide with the feast to be true. This was Muqtada's little party. It was his men in the government who pushed for it, his men who hung Saddam and he is the one who now owns the rope Saddam was killed in. The message is clear: There is a new leader in town who is as crazy and brutal as the one he just killed. Hell, he had the former one killed on the Eid. What more proof do you need, really?
The US got Saddam, and good for them and the world for it. They now have to get Muqtada, or they will be leaving an Islamist Saddam behind them as they evacuate Iraq, and it will be all on their hands.
Just saying…
English
I felt the same way. I was very disappointed that they chanted Muqtada’s name. He is a butcher and a fool to boot. They will never have a successful ( democratic and secular) state until they get rid of all these people like Muqtada. He is no different than Saddam. He has rape rooms, courts that don’t really use the law and mass graves. They are just on a smaller scale. Believe you me, if he had more power, the scope of death and destruction would be the same. If Iraqis think he is the answer, well, then perhaps they are not worth the effort of saving.
a closer analogy would be Hitler getting crucified on easter
yes, your assessment is correct – this was a “hit”, not an execution. Perhaps now, hopefully hopefully hopefully, it can begin going uphill.
Hitler getting excuted on Christmas, Easter, — Foley’s Red Apple Friday Sale — wouldn’t interrupt our dinner in any way. If Hitler was executed on Christmas, most folks would kind of consider it a Christmas present. If you saw a big rat on your table during any holy day, wouldn’t you exterminate it? And if you didn’t want to get your hands dirty doing it, you’d call Orkin or Terminix and hope they are working that day! But it’s nice for SM to be back to tell us “what they’re saying!” Wish I had time to learn Arabic but priority here is Spanish. Didn’t the Beatles and the Who already sing this? “Meet the NEW boss, same as the old boss.” …cause I’m the tax man, yeaahh I’m the tax man hmmm… Welcome back SM dude.
I totally agree with Naomi.
If Hitler had been executed on the holiest of holy days – it wouldn´t have disturbed my celebrations in any way.
Besides – the Saddam trial wasn´t a religious one but based on one of his crimes against the Iraqi people. So why the big fuss about the day of his execution?
I have only seen parts of the video, but it strikes me that Saddam is the only one present with some dignity.
I agree with Naomi. It wouldn’t bother me at all. In fact, the revellry would be elevated. I’m glad the video was made and has been view by millions. There will be no mistaking that the tyrant is dead.
Supposedly the reason they wanted to kill him quick was they were afraid that the Baathist would stage a mass kidnapping and hold the hostages for the release of Saddam.
The fact that Sadr was part of the hanging crew blows chunks.
“Besides – the Saddam trial wasn´t a religious one but based on one of his crimes against the Iraqi people. So why the big fuss about the day of his execution?”
No? Hmm how about the much MUCH bigger ‘Crime against Humanity’ inflicted on the Kurds. Why not let him live to face that one? Hell, why didn’t they just start with that one? I was kinda supportive of him being executed, UNTIL I saw the video. That was shameful. If that’s Bush’s best replacement for Saddam’s regime, mayhaps the Democrats have it right, time for a major rethink.
The fact that Saddam’s execution was so badly botched is strong evidence that it was managed by the Iraqi gov’t. If the American Army had done it, the execution would have been performed with quiet dignity, and Saddam would have been given time to say his final prayer.
Reading the responses here… it’s interesting to see the differences of opinion from the people from the west versus the people from the middle east. The westerners forget that religion is much more a part of life to middle eastern people. Holidays are literally holy days in the m.e. Not just a day off to hang out with the family. 🙂
An execution in the Middle East that didn’t go well. Shocker.
Should have called in an expert.
They pulled the lever as before he finished the recitation of faith, as if to gurantee that he doesn’t go to Heaven on something.
I’m anti-death penalty, but is there anything that Saddam could have said in any language that would have gotten him into heaven?
Accepting Issa as his personal lord and savior? Talking about Jaish Muhammad kicking Zionist ass at Khaybar and/or swearing allegiance to Allah and his one true prophet?
Last minute “redemption” makes a mockery of religion, even if certain ministers/priests/imams/rabbis are pushing it as a doctrine.
“The westerners forget that religion is much more a part of life to middle eastern people.”
That’s the big trouble of our times: Unchecked religious feelings in the Middle East. I’m so glad that most of the world has grown out of that stuff. It wears one out.
Holidays are literally holy days in the m.e. Not just a day off to hang out with the family. 🙂
Some of the worst atrocities in modern history were committed by Muslims on Muslim holy days. Not really buying that one.
The timing sucks, because it was Iranian backed Shia thugs deliberately spitting in the eye of Sunni Muslims. That’s the only reason. Face it, if George Bush was executed on Eid, Muslims wouldn’t be bitching and screaming about it, would they? The ruckus about the timing is sectarian and political, not spiritual. Just like everything else in the ME.
Just one question about the rope being “in Sadr’s Hands”.
Do you believe him ? I mean sorry but Sadr is a little loudmouth kid that like to scream and bounce his fists on his chest. He likes to bully around people and that’s all there is to him. I would take anything about him with a container ship of salt.
And because of the tendency towards conspiracy theories people believe this idiot. Let him prove it, if he has it.
Okay mr. Sadr will have some clean looking thick rope in his drawer. It’s available at any hardware store. It’s just to showoff.
It’s worth reading “How Saddam Killed the Death Penalty…”
http://paralleldivergence.com/2007/01/05/how-saddam-killed-the-death-penalty/
Craig at #13
Well said. You hit the nail on the head. Everything is sectrian and political but its the mindless masses that subsume it into the realm of spirituality and package it as religious. That’s why the ME is in such a shit because everything gets dressed up in the guise of religion and people are too stupid and too lazy to think for themselves. Political manipulation and corruption of the people’s opiate!
I was disappointed by how unprofessional the whole thing was because, as SM has said, we don’t want a similar reign of terror to take the place of the old one. It was most defintitely a personal lynching, it just so happens that I wanted the victim of this lynching dead too. I hadn’t seen the video until a couple of days after the execution had taken place.
Le roi est mort, vive le roi? I had feared that would happen. Maybe reality has a quota to fulfill- there must be this many assholes in existence, no more, no less.
HITLER WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN!
HE KILLED MILLIONS OF CATHOLICS, ADVENTISTS, LUTHERANS, ETC, ETC, ETC
HITLER WAS NEVER NEVER A CHRISTIAN – HE PREFERRED THE GERMAN WAGNER-LIKE MYTHS TO ANY “NORMAL” RELIGION
HITLER WAS NEVER A CHRISTIAN
HITLER WAS NEVER A CHRISTIAN
Yes, Hitler had strong pagan leanings and the SS was connected to many mystical/occultic secret societies, such as the Thule society. The role of churches and Christianity in German life greatly decreased in Nazi Germany. There is much evidence that the SS was actively seeking a new religion for Germany, one that did not have its roots in Judaism, which Christianity does. They were creating a “neo-Paganism”… they certainly could not bring it in all at once as Germany, after all, was the birthplace of the Reformation with a strong base of Catholicism as well. But there is no arguing that Hitler hated and loathed Christianity….
I am SO tired of hearing people describe Hitler as Christian, just because he came from a so-called “Christian” country. Biblical Christianity does not teach that countries can be Christian – only individual people who have made a personal choice can!! Thus the US is not a Christian country, nor is any other country… people are Christians (followers of Christ), geographies are not…
Someone in speaking of the execution of Saddam made an interesting comment, supposedly in relation to Saddam as “Baghdad Butcher,” and interestingly enough this is what the American Kerik (former NYC Police Commissioner) contracted by Homeland Security to train Iraq Police was called, the “Baghdad Butcher.”
It appears much of what has been established in Iraq by the American Shadow-Gov comes under similar headings, interesting isn’t it?
Quite irritating that what could have been an event heralding the arrival of the rule of law in Iraq instead degenerated into a complete farce thereof. It did, however, underline the reality of what Iraq really is. Oh well, thank ___ I live here and not there.
On the other hand, Mussolini got strung up by a mob, IIRC, and Italy is OK. Saddam’s execution may not have been what it could have been, but it probably won’t make things any worse. Somehow a fitting end for a man who had to be dragged like a rat from a hole in the ground. If he wanted/had dignity, he would have gone down shooting, like his sons.
DeWayne – was there a point hidden in your post somewhere?
..
absurd thought –
God of the Universe sings
DING DONG THE BUTCHER’S DEAD…
if there is a BIG bad HELL
Saddam’s registered by now
absurd thought –
God of the Universe wept
when Saddam was killed
he wanted him pissed on
being dragged through Baghdad
..
I completely agree with Naomi. Come on, Sam, did he deserve better or something? Please. So the wicked “take care” of the wicked…that’s nothing new and nothing the world should get our panties in a twist over.
I haven’t seen the execution video yet, but if what I’m reading about it is true, it only underscores the emotionalistic and uncontrolled nature of the political situation in Iraq.
It’s no surprise the way the execution turned out, but my grasp of the messy nature of Iraqi political ways didn’t keep me from *hoping* for better – for a refreshing surprise. The way you conduct an execution, I believe, says a lot about a society’s legal character and it’s readiness for civilized democracy.
It’s not that Saddam deserved better than this. Saddam DESERVED to be killed over and over again, if it were possible, and by every method that he had ordered others to be murdered by, including every form of torture he had employed. But the reason we don’t do *exactly* to murderers what they did to their victims (aside from the fact that MASS murderers can only be killed once) is because we make a point of conducting ourselves in a civilized manner in contrast to the ways of the barbaric criminals. We strive to hold trials that follow rational rules of evidence, seek justice rather than revenge, and keep emotionalism clear of the process straight through to the carrying out of the sentence, whatever that may be.
This is how civilized human beings emphasize that the whole process has been approached with justice and reason at the forefront, rather than with a mind-disintegrating emotion of rage and vengeance leading the way.
Mink mentioned that Mussolini got strung up by a mob, but that Italy is okay. I made that point to my husband just yesterday, and I hope that the analogy applies here. But I’m not sure that it does. How much like PRE-Saddam Iraq was pre-Mussolini Italy regarding a rational rule of law? How far do Iraqis have to go, culturally, to embrace that concept compared to the cultural background of the 1940s Italians?
I’m actually asking, because I don’t know anything about *modern* Iraq pre-Saddam.
I don’t view Iraq as hopeless, but if it’s going to become a place where rights are upheld by law and where rational law prevails, it’s got a long and nasty struggle ahead.
I know. That goes without saying.
Hitler was not a christian but he was a christian! He was of a background in which christian values tended to prevail, a country, poliical system, era; many of his friendsm, associates, were most likely christian– but no, in the strictest sense he was not a christian, did not pray, read bible, have faith. Do evil sadistic psychopaths have the comppacity for spiritual devotion? probablly not….devil spawn are anti-christ it follows…
I think muslims get mixed up with western interpretationa of religion because in the ME islam is all-encompassing; christian middle easterners and many islraelis think the same. Your one of three things whether you know it or not (catholic, jew, muslim)…I say: Okay i’m catholic if that makes thhings easier…
Many westerners today I think who are either religious or secular do not realise that it was only yesterday when euorpe was predominantly a country of the faithful. We think yiour only a christian if you pray; but on certain secretive, subconscious levels your a christian, or muslin or jew in outlook, behaviour, sensibility; there is a long line from the present which stretches into the past; in some mysterical way each one of us has come from there and picked up along the way the history and exxperience of the dead.
I’m a christian in sentiment rather than devotion. Its sad but this is a kind of idenity sticker even sickos like hitler wore.
Of course Talluah is quite right about the execution. Charles Krauthammer has said something similar (and I think he’s one of the smartest people on the planet). I just can’t get myself to care very much. And it’s especially tiresome that it’s always the fault of the US. The Arab world still hasn’t gotten the memo that no one likes a whiner.
“Come on, Sam, did he deserve better or something?”
No, he didn’t.
That isn’t the point though – it’s what the manner of the execution means for Iraq’s future. I assume that US forces would not knowingly and willingly hand over Saddam to anti-American Sadr-ists, so how did they end up carrying out the execution? Their infiltration of the Iraqi government must be very, very deep.
[…] In Egypt, Sandmonkey says the video turned his stomach. Adele of Trinidad’s The Bookmann goes further: The use of a phone camera to bring the world more private imagery from the scene also lent an air of the perverse on top of the existing perversity. […]
I saw the video of Saddam’s execution and it made me sad. The truth is that he bravely faced his execution with dignity. I was appalled and disgusted by the way that he was treated. It was inexcusable. I posted elsewhere that I am “pretty much against the death penalty” (and was confronted about this). I have been thinking about it all day and of Saddam’s execution. I am 100% opposed to the death penalty. Killing others, torture, and hateful behavior towards any people is unacceptable. The timing was wrong—but more significantly, the execution was wrong. Prison with humane, kind treatment should have been his fate. I don’t care what he did; it does not excuse or justify mistreating or harming him.
[I found your blog on Global Voices]
Interesting post, and in the spirit of balance , I invite you to include these videos on your site as well (link is below). Saddam’s style of punishment (not for the weak). I suggest Video #2 is a ‘good’ start.
Circulate this!
http://fdd.typepad.com/fdd/2006/01/alert_saddams_c.html
Without the leaked video of Saddam’s hanging, I’m sure the reactions would have been on a different level (perhaps more cognitive), so of course, the visual images are crucial (just think about the Rodney King video) to one’s argument…my links here are simply to balance the already ugly picture…
GOD are’nt u a cliche too like u said something new, look mate there is’nt any thing new to say about dis topic, arabs have been talking for like da past 10000yrs but did it make any diffrence no!!!!!! so i might as well jus goin them.
Why do you say it is on America’s hands if Al Sadr gains control of Iraq. We paid a high price with our blood and treasure to free Iraq from a brutal dictator and to offer them the chance for democracy! But our patience runs thin now. We are tired of the endless squabbeling between sects and fighting with the insurgents. It seems to be a crossroads there between Al Quida (Which we want to fight) and men from iran and syria who just want a piece of us! We are so sick of being blamed for everything and in the meantime our men and women are dying and getting maimed over there. We never wanted to stay there and occupy that country. Dispite what our war mongering president seems to want. What most of us wanted was to fight Al Quida. We will never give up in this quest to send them all to hell! Make no mistake our thurst for the blood of those responsible for the attacks on our country on Sept. 11 2001 will not be quenched untill every single one of those idiots find themselves prone in a cold grave with worms eating their flesh. That is our goal! We cannot concern ourselves with every conflict in this world. Our resources are not unlimited. We offered the Iraqis a chance for democracy. But most of the time democracy is expensive. They themselves have to take a stand and make for themselves a decent society. We cannot be their parent and make them do it. And say behave yourself. Nor are we responsible if they allow another idiot to gain control over them. Now is the time for them to stand up! We cannot remain there forever. We have our own battles to fight.
A
Beautifully stated. Perfect. I’m linking this. Everyone in America used to say, “We didn’t get rid of Saddam the first time because someone just as bad or worse would have gotten in power.”
There’s no time for rejoicing.
[…] 在埃及，Sandmonkey說這影片使他反胃。Adele of Trinidad的The Bookmann進一步的提到: 攝影手機帶給世人更私密的現場景像，也also lent an air of the perverse on top of the existing perversity. […]
Pathetic, man. I expected more from you. And you really buy into this Moqtada has the rope nonsense? Didn’t you see that some Arabs are saying that Moqtada hung him? What next, will you cite another Arabic source to show us how the Jews did 9/11? Come on, akhooya, I expected much more.
[…] Egypt, Sandmonkey says the video turned his stomach. Adele of Trinidad’s The Bookmann goes further: The use of a phone camera to bring the world […]
[…] Egypt, Sandmonkey says the video turned his stomach. Adele of Trinidad’s The Bookmann goes further: The use of a phone camera to bring the world […]
I expected more from you. And you really buy into this Moqtada has the rope nonsense? Didn’t you see that some Arabs are saying that Moqtada hung him?