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Non-Lethal weapons
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The more non-lethal weapons the better man. Seen that new humvee mounted heat ray? I want to publish a momahead cartoon in an iraqi newspaper just to see it work man.
Shuv Says:”The more non-lethal weapons the better man.”
I disagree. Non-lethal weapons are pointless. The problem is not the weapon, but the courage of the society behind the man with the gun. The West has lost the will and the belief to protect itself. We are spineless and weak. Rioters know that these days no one will punish them. It does not matter if the police have non-lethal weapons or not. They dare not use them because the media will fall on them like a pack of wolves if they scratch a rioter. Look at France holding memorial services for the thugs who got themselves fried while ignoring that for the Jewish boy who was tortured to death over three weeks.
The solution is not a non-lethal weapon, but for the authorities to grow some balls. Those who kill transgressors openly and without shame are always more popular on the Left than those who hesitate. I suggest running more people over with tanks. Not reluctantly either but proudly and openly. The Left loves people who do that.
Wtf HeiGou, what reality do you live in? Goodness gracious.
#2 That was the most alarmist BS i have heard.
I am just pleased that, as the photo caption on the article make clear, they are testing this thing on employees of the Associated Press. They need to give the Reuters crew a blast with it while they are at it and then go on road trips to CNN NBC and the like. Wait till they are on the air cause I want to see these pro jihad yankies scream. I bet Brian Williams will wet himself.
“Look at France holding memorial services for the thugs who got themselves fried while ignoring that for the Jewish boy who was tortured to death over three weeks.”
Heigou, you reproached me not to respond to the facts youd given, here are an exemple of the facts you chose: they both proceed of your manipulativ view and the idea you want to spread ; these facts are not relative to one another, one is the start of a surburb riot, the other one is the result of a perverse gang ; and why police can’t do what they want ? cause we are a civil rights state and not a fachist state !
of course something has to be improved, the way politicians see the immigrant youth, and how to solve their getthoisation ; none till now had really care of the issue, but since november 2005, we all know that this problem can’t be avoid anymore, so, leave us the time to handle it, and stop arguing for your remanent agenda, that we are under islam pressure, not at all, it’s an economic problem ! bon, on ne sera pas d’accord, mais au lieu de repeter toujours la même sornette, essaie de trouver des idées plus ouvertes
BISA Says:”Wtf HeiGou, what reality do you live in? Goodness gracious.”
I live in a reality where thieves commit 140 crimes before they are arrested on average and they can expect to get a judge who has been told that as non-violent offenders they do not belong in jail. There is something very wrong with the West. If nomad does not like the French example, let me cite the Australian example. Look at this argument:
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/column_victorias_new_boss/
For those that can’t be bothered, Melbourne hosted the G20 Summit, which was predictably disrupted by the usual suspects – the feral offspring of the Marxist movement – and the response of the Australian police was to suggest that the government re-think hosting such events in the future. The scum won and the police backed them. As I said, the problem is a failure of will. The British police are as bad. They allow Muslims to incite hatred, call for the murder of the Pope, threaten a repeat of 9-11 without doing a thing.
The bottom line remains a simple one: civilised life survives because we have men with guns who protect us from the ferals. We no longer allow them to use those guns and so the ferals are winning. The solution must be to summon the nerve to use those guns. I assure you think crap does not happen in Singapore, nor Japan nor Taiwan. They have not yet lost their nerve.
Jebus_Cripes Says:”That was the most alarmist BS i have heard.”
There’s something I am proud of. Not wrong though.
nomad Says:”Heigou, you reproached me not to respond to the facts youd given, here are an exemple of the facts you chose: they both proceed of your manipulativ view and the idea you want to spread ; these facts are not relative to one another, one is the start of a surburb riot, the other one is the result of a perverse gang ; and why police can’t do what they want ? cause we are a civil rights state and not a fachist state !”
How is it manipulative? Did the French government send officials to unveil a monument to those two criminals? Well yes they did. Did they send anyone to the service for the dead Jew? No they did not. They are not connected? I think they are. They are charging two policemen for doing their nasty and dangerous job. Denying that too?
One is the start of a riot. Not the torture murder of the dead Jew because civilised people do not riot over criminal acts. But the self-inflicted murder of the two criminals, oh they rioted over that, and the French government is bending over and taking it up the ass and enjoying it.
I do not insist that the police should be allowed to do whatever they like. Just that they ought to be allowed to enforce the law. When they don’t we are all at the mercy of criminals and terrorists. Paris is a perfect example of this. Because the French police are not allowed to enforce the normal laws, much less laws against rioting Paris contains 751 Zones Urbaines Sensibles where the police dare not patrol any more. You are telling me what exactly? What else is this but an utter and total failure of nerve by those who are supposed to be running France? Justify the ZUS for me. Why should normal French people, much less police officers, be unable to go to whatever part of Paris they like without being robbed, raped or murdered?
nomad Says:”of course something has to be improved, the way politicians see the immigrant youth, and how to solve their getthoisation ; none till now had really care of the issue, but since november 2005, we all know that this problem can’t be avoid anymore, so, leave us the time to handle it, and stop arguing for your remanent agenda, that we are under islam pressure, not at all, it’s an economic problem ! bon, on ne sera pas d’accord, mais au lieu de repeter toujours la même sornette, essaie de trouver des idées plus ouvertes”
Nothing has to be improved except the will of the politicians and the arms of the police. There is no ghettoisation, there is only self-inflicted misery. None of this affects the Chinese. Only the Muslims and a few Africans. It is true that the problem cannot be avoided any more but no doubt French politicians will continue to hide under their pillows and try to buy off the rioter – except once those rioters realise that rioting is profitable, they will riot more. You pay Danegeld and the Dane never goes away. It is not an economic problem or there would be rioting Hindus. It is a cultural one. I agree we are going over old territory and we will not agree. But time will prove me right. The question is whether you will finally get it before France become Algerian or not.
The DoD is letting members of the news media experience the effects of these weapons…
This is f-ing brilliant. I can think of several pogues I’d like to volunteer for it.
Heigou, you are not changing, I have already replyed many times on these statements your given, so I won’t continue, believe your own blind ideas, at least your are not one of us, so I can hope Lepen won’t win
Jacques Chriac and the Government at the Synagogue in Paris
enterrement Halimi en Israel
so, always twisting….
nomad Says:”Heigou, you are not changing, I have already replyed many times on these statements your given, so I won’t continue, believe your own blind ideas, at least your are not one of us, so I can hope Lepen won’t win”
Actually even I think I am getting worse. I have gone from a soft liberal to seriously considering voting for my local fascists. I don’t think Le Pen can win, but I have never thought that is the problem. The “problem” (as I would call it now) is that the Left and Right will adopt Le Pen’s platform which is, to a large extent, what the British Labour Party has done, it just can’t implement it. So far it is all words. But the victory of the Fascists would not be the worst outcome any more in Europe. In fact I think the status quo would be worse and I can think of several even worse outcomes.
nomad Says:”Jacques Chriac and the Government at the Synagogue in Paris”
So a quick look at that, suggests that Chirac went to a Synagogue a year ago to express solidarity with the Jewish community. But of course those police men are still being charged – with what may I ask except doing their job – and no one is opening a monument to the innocent victim of some Muslim murderers. Only to some Muslims criminals. What is wrong with this picture?
You may think this is normal, but then the French have a problem with accepting reality. If you were not so deluded, the French would not be so deluded, and France would not be screwed up. Or maybe I mean that the other way around. You are really not outraged they opened a memorial to those two criminals? Anyway, at some point you will wake up. Let me know when that happens.
Just a quick follow up to my now tired anti-French rant, from the Telegraph today:
“France’s traditionally Left-wing intellectual elite has been ablaze since one of its leading members, the former Maoist André Glucksmann, wrote an article in Le Monde entitled: “Why I choose Nicolas Sarkozy.”
….
Conscious that his backing of Mr Sarkozy would earn him many enemies, he described the Left as fatally out of touch and “marinating in its own narcissism”.”
The entire French nation is fatally out of touch and marinating in their own narcissism. The idea that these two policemen could be charged – when they did absolutely nothing wrong – is unbelievable. That the French government allows 751 neighborhoods where ordinary French people cannot go, and I notice nomad does not deny it, is worse. Luckily, if past experience is anything to go on, these two men will be acquitted. After all, Papon died today which shows you what you have to do to get three years in jail in France.
But that merely serves to illustrate my point – the French government has lost the will to stand up for the values they claim they uphold.
Hehe the “Telegraph” is a good source for anti-french ideas ! (english oblige :lol:)
as far as Mr Glucksman, well he is not considerated as a lighthouse, more partisan ! he can go for Sarko… he needs such a clairvoyant fellow best known among the pseudo philosophical “peoples”, at least with Doc Genico, he will do the paire, one is excited, the other one is cooool 😆
cite one of the allegates 751 neighbourghoods, I tell you what is goingon there , funny, my son works in Paris, he crosses the city every day with his bycicle to go to St Denis, and never tells me how scary he is 😆
nomad Says:”Hehe the “Telegraph” is a good source for anti-french ideas ! (english oblige 😆 )”
Are you sure you’re not an Arab – after all you are adopting their favorite tactic of playing the man not the ball. Whether they are anti-French or not is irrelevant to whether they are right or not.
nomad Says:”as far as Mr Glucksman, well he is not considerated as a lighthouse, more partisan ! he can go for Sarko… he needs such a clairvoyant fellow best known among the pseudo philosophical “peoples”, at least with Doc Genico, he will do the paire, one is excited, the other one is cooool :lol:”
And again. Glucksman was a Lighthouse 20 years ago. Odd about that. How could he have become more partisan than he was? He is just partisan for the moderate Right now, not the Far Left. Pseudo-philosophical? France has such a richness of philosophers it can dismiss one of the most significant of the last 30 or 40 years? I think not myself. Again, play the ball, not the man.
nomad Says:”cite one of the allegates 751 neighbourghoods, I tell you what is goingon there , funny, my son works in Paris, he crosses the city every day with his bycicle to go to St Denis, and never tells me how scary he is ”
What a good son. Doesn’t want to worry his Mother.
Here is a list of some across France:
http://i.ville.gouv.fr/divbib/doc/chercherZUS.htm
Heigou , right now your trying to upset me, I am Britton, Croat, may-be jewish by the name of my great-grand father, either jewish or arab 😆
doesn’t matter for me,
glucksman is doing the favorite “turn the vest” as the conditions seems more favorable for him, anyway, many people from ex communist or extrem left wings happened to turn their vest for extrem right, ie Le Pen ; one could not say Sarko is only right wing, he is for US lobby and therefore their policy towards ME, and you could not say he represents the french positions, but Bayrou does, he is calm and reflexive man,moderated right
nomad,
I am not French. I do not understand a lot about what is going on in Europe and in France in particular. But I know this. If you want to deliver you message you may and probably should have orderly and peaceful demonstration. However, if you decided to riot, government, however civilized, must come down on you like a ton of bricks. Niceties be damned.
nomad Says:”I am Britton, Croat, may-be jewish by the name of my great-grand father, either jewish or arab 😆
doesn’t matter for me”
You mean Breton? Then you ought to support you only fellow Breton in the up coming Presidential elections even if he is a kargedoull because the rest of them are a bern kaoc’h.
nomad Says:”glucksman is doing the favorite “turn the vest” as the conditions seems more favorable for him, anyway, many people from ex communist or extrem left wings happened to turn their vest for extrem right, ie Le Pen ; one could not say Sarko is only right wing, he is for US lobby and therefore their policy towards ME, and you could not say he represents the french positions, but Bayrou does, he is calm and reflexive man,moderated right”
I love the assumption that anyone who is for the US is anti-France. Sums up the problem don’t it? Glucksman may have changed for those reasons – what French man wouldn’t? – but it is more likely that he had a genuine change of heart. Most people get more conservative as they get older and the French Left lead the charge for the Khmer Rouge. I’d be embarrassed to be associated with them myself but then I have a sense of shame. Bayrou looks interesting but France does not need more of the same. It needs change.
leo Says:”However, if you decided to riot, government, however civilized, must come down on you like a ton of bricks. Niceties be damned.”
Which is a more civilised way of saying what I said. Except we have lost the will. Arab youths burn 250 cars a night in Paris. The police do nothing. The politicians praise the little bastards and put the police on trial. The British are, if anything, worse and don’t even get me started on the rest of them that can only aspire to be surrender monkeys.
“he is a kargedoull because the rest of them are a bern kaoc’h.”
sorry breton gallo, your charabia isn’t for me, BTW, you seems more of his side than me !
“I love the assumption that anyone who is for the US is anti-France.”
during Clinton presidency there were not any major problem to be pro US policy, since the “neo-vrais-cons thrown a fatwa against us, and as we are not ignorant, we can read all their papers or listen to their medias, no surprise people got their feelings changed
“The police do nothing. The politicians praise the little bastards and put the police on trial. The British are, if anything, worse and don’t even get me started on the rest of them that can only aspire to be surrender monkeys. ”
alway teasing to set fire, nah ?
the police does something, but not enough for you, wake up man, Algeria war is over since 1962 ! the policemen in trial , if they have done nothing wrong they will be released ; anyway that’s the way democraty works, one asks for a trial then OK, the defense will do its job
you should drink up your “surrender monkey” piss apparently it’s one of your favorite drink
the politicians don’t praise anyone except themselves
My point. The policeman does nothing because he knows he will be in the very depths of shite if someone on the sidlines yells excess force! or racial discrimination when he exercises the weaopons at his disposal, which are limited to nightsticks and guns which only cause anger and tazers and “beanbag” rounds which are a poor excuse for nothing ina riot situation . Sure , shooting some punk rioter will cause more problems than it solves, but supposing we make a weaopn that Causes a “forced voiding of the bowels”? Not onl teaching the rioters an lesson but providing appropriate community service work for any arrested rioters.
The thing is (for Heigou investigations, but are they investigations ? rather procurator diatribes ! ) that his beloved Sarko when he came back on duty in police ministery, he removed the proximity police in surburbs, that one the lefty wing party create well ! instead of, he increased the number of assault troops, how do you interprete this ? his objectif was that the immigrants would go to the clash ; this man does not care of the french average population, his objectives are thoses of Heigou, protect the richer population,
denegation of the foreigners, who are not foreigners for the most part : in France since 3 generations !
reinstall the religions inside the state institutions, with primaledge for the dead catholic one of course !
so if this man come in power, we’ll go back to the ages of “the Edit de Nantes”, when Lewis the XIV broke the arrangement traité between catholics and protestants that means more quarrels inside each party, anyway seems he wants to settle a fachist government alike the previous communist country where he came from , Hungary.
sorry Heigou, but your more of a rethorician than a thinker and your not Socrate for sure, you don’t make a verity discovering , and I would call you “un homme savant”, alike the intellectual previous lefty elite, some kind of wind !
@Heigou: you say “I disagree. Non-lethal weapons are pointless. The problem is not the weapon, but the courage of the society behind the man with the gun”
Are you some kind of Philosopher now? 😉
nomad Says:”BTW, you seems more of his side than me !”
More and more every day.
nomad Says:”during Clinton presidency there were not any major problem to be pro US policy, since the “neo-vrais-cons thrown a fatwa against us, and as we are not ignorant, we can read all their papers or listen to their medias, no surprise people got their feelings changed”
Except no one was pro-American. The Americans just did not care. Since 9-11 the Americans have looked for allies and not found many. Nor do I think that view reflects what French people think, but what the graduates of the Ecoles in Paris think. The French love McDonalds. They love American films. They voted down the European Constitution. It is just that in France, what the voters think does not matter.
nomad Says:”the police does something, but not enough for you, wake up man, Algeria war is over since 1962 ! the policemen in trial , if they have done nothing wrong they will be released ; anyway that’s the way democraty works, one asks for a trial then OK, the defense will do its job”
The Algerian war has simply moved to St Denis. It is not over yet. They are burning 250 cars a night. Paris is now part Algerian. The rest of France will follow.
You have a touching faith in the French justice system – but in the meantime, their lives are disrupted, their families damaged, their reputations ruined – and all because not a single French politician has the balls to say they do a difficult and dangerous job and we all ought to thank them! This is not the way a healthy democracy ought to work. It is cynical and dangerous politics. French in a word. And it emboldens the Mob.
Shuv Says:”My point. The policeman does nothing because he knows he will be in the very depths of shite if someone on the sidlines yells excess force! or racial discrimination when he exercises the weaopons at his disposal, which are limited to nightsticks and guns which only cause anger and tazers and “beanbag” rounds which are a poor excuse for nothing ina riot situation . Sure , shooting some punk rioter will cause more problems than it solves, but supposing we make a weaopn that Causes a “forced voiding of the bowels”? Not onl teaching the rioters an lesson but providing appropriate community service work for any arrested rioters.”
I disagree that shooting the odd rioter causes more problems than it solves. Quick and firm action is the best way to end problems. Indecision is the worst of all worlds. A relative of mine used to work in a mental institution, and he saw “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” and he agreed terrible places like that existed – but the worst institutions were those where the management was tried, weak, indecisive, and cynical. They were far more brutal. Now that is true of entire suburbs in the West.
nomad Says:”The thing is (for Heigou investigations, but are they investigations ? rather procurator diatribes ! ) that his beloved Sarko when he came back on duty in police ministery”
If I had a vote in France I’d vote for the Breton, not the Hungarian. Sarko is not beloved of me. He is better than Royale, but no solution.
nomad Says:”he removed the proximity police in surburbs, that one the lefty wing party create well ! instead of, he increased the number of assault troops, how do you interprete this ? his objectif was that the immigrants would go to the clash ; this man does not care of the french average population, his objectives are thoses of Heigou, protect the richer population,
denegation of the foreigners, who are not foreigners for the most part : in France since 3 generations !”
They are foreign if they reject France. He recognised that ordinary police can no longer patrol those areas because they are outgunned. They just get hurt. Those areas need assault troops – or better yet soldiers in tanks. The only alternative is no policing at all.
nomad Says:”reinstall the religions inside the state institutions, with primaledge for the dead catholic one of course !”
Really? Sarkozy’s a Jew isn’t he? An odd thing for a Jew to want.
nomad Says:”so if this man come in power, we’ll go back to the ages of “the Edit de Nantes”, when Lewis the XIV broke the arrangement traité between catholics and protestants that means more quarrels inside each party, anyway seems he wants to settle a fachist government alike the previous communist country where he came from , Hungary.”
If only. France needs a Louis XIV. Or at least a Henri IV. Instead what it is getting is Laval – people only interested in destroying France and appeasing evil.
Modern Pharaoh Says:”Are you some kind of Philosopher now?”
A regular Renaissance man in fact.
“Except no one was pro-American. The Americans just did not care.”
no one is pro european either, or pro some powerful pression, sure the red-neck didn’t care !
“Since 9-11 the Americans have looked for allies and not found many.”
Mr Bush and his coalition were looking for some kind of ennemies to focalise the Americans attention for unity, the Arabs would be their target and the Frenchs the ones on whom they could demonised and on whom they could say bad jokes without being terrorised
War in St Denis, how comes I never heard of it ! yeah, justice has to bereformed, it will in times ! I am touchy in the way you always want to undermine all things that come from France
“They are foreign if they reject France. He recognised that ordinary police can no longer patrol those areas because they are outgunned. They just get hurt. Those areas need assault troops – or better yet soldiers in tanks. The only alternative is no policing at all.”
the assault troops arenot a solution, first cause they are the Sarko policy, second and the mos timportant, the guis are not prepared for surburbs reactions, a lot come from provinces,and just don’t know how to handle the problems or to discuss, should be special forces for that !
Sarkosy a jew, of course, but not attending the synagogue
though he is the one who wants religions as oficial representations in the states infrastructures insted of citoyennety ones
We had De Gaulle and you did not like him either as Louis XIV, the latter would be more annoying for you, BTW, Bayrou could be Henri IV,
destroying France, I did not remarck that, better says modern life is changing our habits
as far as the image of a Renaissance guy you evoqued for your attitude, so far I would say your more of the pope nonce obscurantism 😛
“Pour moi Bush, les Néocons, ou la guerre en Irak, ne sont pas la cause 1ère de la baisse du leadership américain.
Voici une liste de cause possible :
1) La disparition de l’Union soviétique :
Avant il fallait choisir son camp il y avait des gens prosoviétique et d’autre pro américains.
Maintenant cela à moins de sens, pour moi même plus du tout.
Il n’y a plus beaucoup de raisons d’être pro américains sans menace soviétique.
Bien sur il y a la menace Islamistes. Mais ces pays sont faibles.
Seul les pays qui onts peur sont très proaméricains : Israël et Taiwan sont deux bon exemples.
Chaque pays se replie sur lui-même puisqu’il n’y a plus 2 camps.
L’Amérique Latine est un bon exemple : elle n’a plus besoin des Etats-Unis.
Certains pays sont vraiment anti-américains , surtout les plus pauvres ou les plus dépendants culturellement : Venezuela, Bolivie.
Ceux qui sont plus autonomes par leur poids économiques ou démographiques se détournent des Etats-Unis : Argentine, Brésil.
2) La ghettoïsation culturelle des USA.
De moins en moins d’américains apprennent les langues étrangères, moins encore que les pays d’Europe du Sud (France, Italie, Espagne) ou le niveau est déjà faible.
Les américains voyagent peu en comparaison des autre peuples de même niveau de vie.
La création planifié d’un mur entre les USA et le Mexique.
Très peu de livres étrangers sont traduits et encore moins lus.
3) Le déficit commercial avec un dollar pourtant plutôt faible.
L’endettement des ménages est vraiment énorme : 120 % du revenu des ménages (comme en GB et Espagne a peu près) en France 60 %.
Les américains n’épargnent quasiment pas (0,3%)
Tout ceci à pour avantage de faire marcher la consommation et d’accélérer la croissance qui est bonne et pour cause : ils vivent à crédit.
Une conséquence est la diminution des moyens de rétorsion des USA contre d’autres.
Récemment j’ai lu dans un journal américain (je ne sais plus lequel) peut-être le NYT, que les Européens commerçant plus avec l’Iran avait plus de moyens de pression sur ce pays.
le problème des USA, et leur force peut-être, et que ce pays à besoin d’un bouc émissaire, pour rester leader.
La disparition de l’URSS a porter un coup fatal au soft power américain, ils chercher de nouveaux ennemis : Pays Musulman, Venezuela, Iran, France, Corée du Nord, quelquefois aussi la Russie la Chine, mais ils ne sont pas très fixé.
Comme le faisait remarqué Edward Luttwak (Génial absolument à lire) , Stratège Géopolitique de l’administration Reagan : les Etats-Unis ont besoin d’un ennemi extérieur à cause de leur fragmentation interne (Ethnique et maintenant sociale).”
from a journalist
nomad Says:”no one is pro european either, or pro some powerful pression, sure the red-neck didn’t care !”
The Americans are hugely pro-European, and pro-Western European too. It is silly to say otherwise.
nomad Says:”Mr Bush and his coalition were looking for some kind of ennemies to focalise the Americans attention for unity, the Arabs would be their target and the Frenchs the ones on whom they could demonised and on whom they could say bad jokes without being terrorised”
This sort of paranoia is truly, well, Middle Eastern. Bush was elected on an Isolationist platform which he believed. 9-11 changed that. America did not go looking for enemies. Enemies came to them. It is sad that any rational person would think otherwise. The French demonise themselves by their cynical and selfish politics.
nomad Says:”War in St Denis, how comes I never heard of it ! yeah, justice has to bereformed, it will in times ! I am touchy in the way you always want to undermine all things that come from France”
You have to take your head out of the sand to notice. It will be reformed I agree. It will become Sharia. France has produced a lot of great things. The last I can think of is the Code Napoleon. But since then it has been down hill. I believe, rather strongly, that France took a wrong turn when it abandoned its culture and heritage for the Revolution. Cut off from their own soil and origins, the French are alienated and rootless. Hence they are dying.
nomad Says:”the assault troops arenot a solution, first cause they are the Sarko policy, second and the mos timportant, the guis are not prepared for surburbs reactions, a lot come from provinces,and just don’t know how to handle the problems or to discuss, should be special forces for that !”
The Army is the first step – only when civil order has been restored can the police patrol and normal law and order take over. They are not the result of Sarko’s policies, but of violence from the Muslim population which pre-dates him by some years. The suburbs have no problems that need to be dealt with. At least not with anything more than a 5.56 mm FAMAS round. The question is simply one of authority and respect – who rules the suburbs: the French government or the gangs?
nomad Says:”Sarkosy a jew, of course, but not attending the synagogue
though he is the one who wants religions as oficial representations in the states infrastructures insted of citoyennety ones”
Good.
nomad Says:”We had De Gaulle and you did not like him either as Louis XIV, the latter would be more annoying for you, BTW, Bayrou could be Henri IV,”
Actually as French politicians go, De Gaulle was cynical and arrogant, like all the rest, but many French politicians were worse. Bayrou could not be because Henri IV cured many of the problems of France and gave them peace. For a while. However for that to happen the Protestants had to want peace. The rebels this time do not want peace and the problems of France require a radical solution. I expect that, as usual, no one but the Army can deliver it.
nomad Says:”as far as the image of a Renaissance guy you evoqued for your attitude, so far I would say your more of the pope nonce obscurantism ”
Moreover I am proud to be.
seems Napoleon makes a great deal for you, I expect our neighbourgs from UK, Germany and Russia not agreeing with you ;
BTW, without the Revolution there would not have been some Napoleon 😀
the sharia as rule and Glucksman (well some kind of his friends) as a philosopher, woo, what a marvellous world ! scuse-me, but I better go to Alicante, please, don’t tell me Alicante is “toute pourrite” as well
nomad Says:”“Pour moi Bush, les Néocons, ou la guerre en Irak, ne sont pas la cause 1ère de la baisse du leadership américain.
Voici une liste de cause possible :
1) La disparition de l’Union soviétique :
Avant il fallait choisir son camp il y avait des gens prosoviétique et d’autre pro américains.
Maintenant cela à moins de sens, pour moi même plus du tout.
Il n’y a plus beaucoup de raisons d’être pro américains sans menace soviétique.
Bien sur il y a la menace Islamistes. Mais ces pays sont faibles.
Seul les pays qui onts peur sont très proaméricains : Israël et Taiwan sont deux bon exemples.
Chaque pays se replie sur lui-même puisqu’il n’y a plus 2 camps.
L’Amérique Latine est un bon exemple : elle n’a plus besoin des Etats-Unis.
Certains pays sont vraiment anti-américains , surtout les plus pauvres ou les plus dépendants culturellement : Venezuela, Bolivie.
Ceux qui sont plus autonomes par leur poids économiques ou démographiques se détournent des Etats-Unis : Argentine, Brésil.
Well there is something cynical and self serving about this, but let’s agree. Without the Soviet Union, the French do not need the Americans any more. So what? The fact is America still leads the world in the production of every single thing that counts. Only America regularly upholds freedom and democracy. It is true that countries threatened by the US are more likely to be pro-American. It is also true that Latin America is choosing not to be. But then, Latin America has consistently chosen wrong since kicking the Spanish out haven’t they? That is why despite more resources than the US, they are so poor. And they are fleeing to the US as fast as they can go.
nomad Says:”2) La ghettoïsation culturelle des USA.
De moins en moins d’américains apprennent les langues étrangères, moins encore que les pays d’Europe du Sud (France, Italie, Espagne) ou le niveau est déjà faible.
Les américains voyagent peu en comparaison des autre peuples de même niveau de vie.
La création planifié d’un mur entre les USA et le Mexique.
Très peu de livres étrangers sont traduits et encore moins lus.”
Except the rest of the world is lapping up American cultural products. It simply is not the case that the US is entering a cultural ghetto. Rather no one else can produce cultural works that can compete with the US. Having said that, it is also not true. The French, for instance, have just given a cultural prize to a foreigner. That never happens. It is a mile stone. But the reserve is not true – foreigners can and do make a fortune in America if they produce something of value. Think J K Rowling, Jean Claude Van Damme (OK, even if they don’t), Paul Verhoeven – I bet Hollywood has more foreigners working in it as a percentage of artists than France has ever had. Americans, of course, do learn the language of at least one southern European country – with a Mexican accent of course. The Bush family increasingly speaks Spanish.
nomad Says:”3) Le déficit commercial avec un dollar pourtant plutôt faible.
L’endettement des ménages est vraiment énorme : 120 % du revenu des ménages (comme en GB et Espagne a peu près) en France 60 %.
Les américains n’épargnent quasiment pas (0,3%)
Tout ceci à pour avantage de faire marcher la consommation et d’accélérer la croissance qui est bonne et pour cause : ils vivent à crédit.
Une conséquence est la diminution des moyens de rétorsion des USA contre d’autres.
Récemment j’ai lu dans un journal américain (je ne sais plus lequel) peut-être le NYT, que les Européens commerçant plus avec l’Iran avait plus de moyens de pression sur ce pays.”
You don’t notice the economics of this? America’s economy is so healthy and strong that it sucks in investment from overseas. Which pushes up the current account deficit. Which also means Americans do not have to save. No one wants to invest in Haiti – or France – and so they have to have higher saving rates. This is not a sign of America’s diminishing power, but of the enormous strength of its economy. Which is continuing to innovate by the way – what contributions have Europe made to IT? As for Iran, America has taken a moral stand and imposed sanctions on a horrible country. France, of course, does not care about human rights and makes a lot of money from such horrible countries – they can only survive where the US choose not to go (Iran, Iraq, parts of Africa etc etc).
nomad Says:”le problème des USA, et leur force peut-être, et que ce pays à besoin d’un bouc émissaire, pour rester leader.”
And now we are back with the paranoia. No it does not. America wins in peace time. What it is doing only hurts it.
nomad Says:”La disparition de l’URSS a porter un coup fatal au soft power américain, ils chercher de nouveaux ennemis : Pays Musulman, Venezuela, Iran, France, Corée du Nord, quelquefois aussi la Russie la Chine, mais ils ne sont pas très fixé.”
Back with the paranoia. America has not sought to make enemies of any of those countries. They have sought conflict with the US.
nomad Says:”Comme le faisait remarqué Edward Luttwak (Génial absolument à lire) , Stratège Géopolitique de l’administration Reagan : les Etats-Unis ont besoin d’un ennemi extérieur à cause de leur fragmentation interne (Ethnique et maintenant sociale).””
A misquote of Luttwak – and notice that they have to go back to the 1980s to find a suitable source. Brilliant.
This is just the dying kicks of France’s Stalinist Left. Big deal.
hey, chouchou, you praised for a fachist system for us, then Stalinist Left is an alternative for you too, big deal !
nomad Says:”hey, chouchou, you praised for a fachist system for us, then Stalinist Left is an alternative for you too, big deal !”
I don’t think I did actually and Fascism is only a defensive reaction to Communism anyway.
Stalinists hate people like me. They’d shoot me if they got a chance. So would most Fascists actually. But luckily that is not a problem I face as I live in the Anglophone world. Neither Fascism nor Communism has been a feature of the English speaking world in the past. You on the other hand live in France. Which produces the majority of the world’s mass murderers, Communists and not a few Fascists either. In fact if there was no France, there would be no Communism, no Lenin, no Pol Pot, no Mao, no Khomeini.
karl Marx and Engels were not french, but of german and jewish origin
Lenin found his wife in France, would you say she is the theorician of the bolchevism ?
Polpot ? did not heard of his passage by us, but he mosly learnt communism from Cjineses
Khomeni, is our mistake, we should have extermined him while he was in exil
but as far as Anglophone you can’t avoid the Boers war, and the first concentration campments
Khomeni, is our mistake, we should have extermined him while he was in exil
Ho Chi Minh as well. And others! HeiGou has a point. France has produced or sheltered quite a number of violent revolutionaries over the years. In the case of Ho Chi Minh, it bit you in the ass directly. But nothing was learned.
“Moderation in the defense of Liberty is no virtue.”
-Barry Goldwater
Hei,
I personally favor 12 gauge, short barrel, 000 buck for my non-lethal weapon.
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/def_090105/
nomad,
Just in the interest of completeness, Marx and Trotsky (Engels?) were ETHNICALLY Jewish, but had ceased to be adherents of the Jewish religion, and did not really consider themselves much to be part of the Jewish nation, IIRC. We’re not without our share of crackpots (like that imbecile Stanley Cohen who gets on CNN and gives an impassioned defense of Hamas’s right to kill him, from time to time), and we possibly have more than you would expect proportionately.
bj
Craig, sure we were and still a “terre d’asile” for any politic who fear death penalty in his country; not mantion only those ones who had to encounter your country too, but we also had a tremendous number of russians refugiees who ran away from Bolchevism… etc…
But nothing was learned from Ben Laden and Saudi Arabia for your sake
BJ, then tell your friend Heigou, seems we are the worsts on this earth when he is not dreaming of Marie-Antoinette times
BJ, your right about engels, he was only german
Barry Golwater was he an extrem right presidential candidate in US ?
Barry Goldwater was a center-right US Senator who ran for president in 1964. His political opponent, LBJ, tarred him with the accusation that he was an extreme right winger. I think a fair review of his record would establish that he was no such thing.
He was fairly libertarian, and felt that small, non-interfering government was best. He also believed, as I do, that wars suck, and are best finished as quickly as possible. And that the best way to do that is to fight as hard as you can, win the damn thing, and go home.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater
(most interesting stuff is around half-way down)
LBJ, meanwhile, insinuated that Goldwater was a bloodthirsty nuclear warmonger, even as he increased troop levels in Vietnam from 16,000 in 1963 to 550,000 in 1968.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daisy_%28television_commercial%29
Let me correct my misquote above (#32) as follows:
“Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
Barry Goldwater
nomad Says:”karl Marx and Engels were not french, but of german and jewish origin”
Indeed they were (Well Marx was German and Jewish (his father had converted), but Engels was only German) – but Francophiles. Their philosophy was basically a commentary on the French Revolution and the ideas therein.
nomad Says:”Lenin found his wife in France, would you say she is the theorician of the bolchevism ?”
Well no. But again, Francophile. France produces many many people who go home and commit mass murder.
nomad Says:”Polpot ? did not heard of his passage by us, but he mosly learnt communism from Cjineses”
No he did not. He did not spend any time in China until the 1970s. He did, however, study Engineering in Paris where he met the other “historic” leaders of the Khmer Rouge and they formed the Cambodian Communist Party – as their name suggests.
nomad Says:”Khomeni, is our mistake, we should have extermined him while he was in exil”
Even worse you educated Ali Shariati who gave Khomeini many of his ideas.
nomad Says:”but as far as Anglophone you can’t avoid the Boers war, and the first concentration campments”
Actually the first concentration camps were in Cuba, not the Boer War.
Besides, so what? Those camps were not extermination camps. Stalin on the other hand copied the Gulag directly from the French penal system. If you read Solzhenitsyn and Papillon you can see the parallels.
We are not responsible of the deviations from preverse minds around the world, I would not bet on you though 😛
Indeed they were (Well Marx was German and Jewish (his father had converted), but Engels was only German) – but Francophiles. Their philosophy was basically a commentary on the French Revolution and the ideas therein.
On this I have to agree. Having read the biography of Joseph Fouché, I must say that his ideas (before he switched them to go with the new winners as he always did), as well as much of what the Jacobin Radicals did and planned to do in France, were exactly what later became the Communist Manifesto.
Of course, France is hardly the source of all evil in mankind. It is, on the other hand, a place where the theoretical part of most radical thought seems to flourish.
nomad Says:”We are not responsible of the deviations from preverse minds around the world, I would not bet on you though”
But it is amazing that so many terrorists and genocidal maniacs were educated in France isn’t it? Pol Pot. All the Chinese Communist Party except Mao. Ho Chih Minh. When they busted the November 17 terrorist group in Greece it turned out they were led by a French-trained academic. Big surprise. Where did George Habash go to school again?
yeah, did the communists in France make genocice ? so, it is not our fault if the cited ones had their own project !
“it is a place where the theoretical part of most radical thought seems to flourish.”
in 19th century Paris was considerated as the intellectual place in the world, therefore all the foreign elites wanted to come there, of course some of them became theoricians of diverse utopies or political programs ; though we had not only this side of intellectual development, but also the greatest pictural innovation ; so
Heigou, where did you lear french again ?
nomad Says:”yeah, did the communists in France make genocice ? so, it is not our fault if the cited ones had their own project !”
Did the Communists come to power in France? No they did not. Did the French voters want them to come to power? Probably. Thanks to the CIA there was no genocide in France. But not because of the French, or at least not because of educated French people. They had their own project because they learnt to do so from French intellectuals. Based on the genocidal behaviour of the French during the Revolution (the Vendée for instance)
nomad Says:”in 19th century Paris was considerated as the intellectual place in the world, therefore all the foreign elites wanted to come there, of course some of them became theoricians of diverse utopies or political programs”
Really? How many Liberal Democrats came to France? Or became Liberal Democrats while in France? Not that diverse really is it?
nomad Says:”Heigou, where did you lear french again ?”
All I know I learnt at my Mother’s knee. Where else?
“Really? How many Liberal Democrats came to France? Or became Liberal Democrats while in France? Not that diverse really is it?”
funny how you bring always things to politic, I thought mainly to painters, writers…
“Thanks to the CIA there was no genocide in France.”,
yeah , I don’t remember that CIA had a greatt deal in France, thanks to Degaulle, but they actually provoqued train accident in Italy
“Based on the genocidal behaviour of the French during the Revolution (the Vendée for instance”
did the revolution army manage to kill all the “Chouans” rebellion ?
no, De Villiers is still there
I am surprised that your mother’s knees had such a genuise knowledge