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SM,
Did you see the Israeli president fighting with reporters from TV2. Do you know if Memri shows that on it’s collection?
OMFGs, this is fucking brilliant!
SM, I am stealing this. Thanks, bro – I laughed my furry arse off 🙂
And in one clip the world is shown why there will always be war in the Middle East. If these guys had guns, they would have blown each others heads off.
The clip is hilarious but the the encapsulation of differences between two Middle Eastern men who cannot even debate on neutral ground without beating the shit out of each other is rather dark. If two men of this presumed stature can’t reason how can we expect the propaganda washed man on the street to ?
86% against the hanging of Saddam ! Where was this poll conducted ? If in Iraq, then this figure just serves to provide further proof at the futility of the US invasion of Iraq.
Sorry I know this was just supposed to be a light moment at SM but it is telling no ?
thanks for the morning laugh.
Wish I could watch it but those MEMRI TV .asp things always lock up my computer. What was it? Is it on You Tube yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcH3Z0NL11o
Twosret – your… obsession… must be difficult to live with. You have my pity.
Brilliant! And telling, indeed.
Just goes to show how mentally unstable you have to be in order to be a supporter of Saddam. I guess maybe it’s more honorable to believe your family member died by the hand of someone worthy… Or he’s just a freaking headcase.
3. Frenchman
The program was aired on Qatar TV. I’m sure you would not get that kind of survey (or sentiment) in Iraq today. Now, in Baghdad Bob’s time it may have been typical.
I’d seen this a while back. Quite funny, really. I think the closest we ever got to this on British TV was when Grace Jones walloped Russell Harty with her handbag for being rude.
And your father smells of elderberry!!! LOL
What wonderful role models for the future little exploding adolescents of the middle east.
Twosret say:
Did you see the Israeli president fighting with reporters from TV2. Do you know if Memri shows that on it’s collection?
Nice try at deflection Two, reminds me of a child caught doing something wrong then says, Well, did you see Billy do so and so? You have my pity, but your still funny in kind of a pathetic way.
is this guy real?
like: ” saddam killed half of my familiy and my uncle and bla bla bla, but i love him, and he is a martir”
I am speachless….
Watch it without sound, its a great big pointing match, its awesome.
Himir!
Good work Twosret!
I wasn’t deflecting I was just throwing it in the mix and wondering why it is not on Memri 🙂
There you go; absolutely no logic in the minds of the so-called resistance – ‘STUPID’ – should be a crime.
You just can’t fix stupid.
I would’ve laughed if people like this guy (Saddam defender) were few and far between.
Unfortunately, from the looks of it, people not like him are few.
If Stupid were a crime Bush would be serving a life sentence with no chance for parole
This saddam supporter is the guy who runs an anti-US propraganda channel from Syria that broadcasts off of Egyptian satellites & shows US soldiers getting blown up & sniped.
You’d think for the $2billion the US gives Egypt every year, they’d be nice enough not to host jihadi tv on their satellites. Thanks Egypt!
Hehe, they’re talking funny talk.
– Homer Simpson
what abaut the fake Prophet in egypt …..
he facing 4 years in jail now?…is it truh
Twosret,
If it’s already on Youtube, with English translation by CNN, what would be the point of posting it on MEMRI? I fail to understand the venom you direct at MEMRI. You get upset when they show Islamic fundamentalists. You get upset when they show Islamic reformers. You get upset when they show heated debate, with people on both sides of the issues of the day. Pray tell, what should they be allowed to show? Bullwinkle cartoons? A test pattern?
I_Caca_dau,
If stupid were a crime, GWB would have plenty of company in his cell block. BTW, kudos for your proper use of the subjuncive mood (a pet peeve of mine).
Interesting. The rhetoric behind the passion behind the BS is almost overwhelming.
bj,
me upset who said so? you have a strange way of interpreting I don’t like their cut and paste biased views. One of the guys that is fighting is on the US side and the other one is on Saddam side. I didn’t oppose that this is ridiculous funny and stupid as Memri is of course.
So what were you saying exactly?
The reason why I felt it should be on Memri as Memri is an Israeli organization and they should also put up on their site since they love the Jerry springer Arabic shows so much. From what I know that the Israeli Knesset is full of fights too 🙂 so why pick on us and we don’t pick on you 🙂
More entertainment from Israel. Chanting “There is no Palestine Israel is our country”.
The lovely peaceful Israeli girls harassing the Palestinian girls coming from school. Video courtesy of Peace Keepers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqvLtoWBpTU&mode=related&search=
Hateful little Israeli thugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8yKFKao0sI&mode=related&search=
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OO28p-yaTVY&mode=related&search=
Israeli settlers riot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I8i0-hb818&mode=related&search=
Twosret,
The reason MEMRI exists is because Arabic TV is unaccessible to the international audience. Arab leaders say one thing when speaking publicly in English, and quite another thing in Arabic. Without someone distributing translations, there would be no one to witness the duplicity. Israeli broadcasts often include English, either as subtitles, as the language being spoken, or as ongoing translation, so there isn’t much need.
No kidding there are fights in Knesset. Anyone can go to Knesset in session and watch them live. I’ve done it. It’s not a secret at all. THey come to fisticuffs as well.
Like I said, it’s important for MEMRI to exist so that non-Arabic speakers can know what’s going on in Arab media – at least the media that they are not specifically aiming at an English speaking audience.
Are they pro-Israel? Sure they are. Otherwise, why would they bother? So what? That doesn’t detract from the value of their service.
Are you anti-Israel? Sure you are. Does that make your comments worthless? I don’t think so. That’s why I read what you have to say, and respond when I think appropriate.
bj,
“The reason MEMRI exists is because Arabic TV is unaccessible to the international audience. ”
You believe what you just wrote BJ? You think that Memri exists just to translate Arab news? We have excellent translators in the Arab world and MOST Arab channels have news in English, French, and even Armenian. Their English is perfect and they speak fluent British with no accent. Give me a break!
The agenda of Memri is clear, it is not just for translation. It is for bringing up the worst in the Arab world through cheap cut and paste. Do I agree with the videos of course NOT. Do I condone stupid behavior sure NOT. It exists everywhere.
Their service is targeting Arabs and making sure that they taunt their image. I thought that you are smarter than defending a very clear anti-Arab media.
Hmmmm so what does that make you Anti-Arab then 🙂 SURE!
Next time you read Memri remind them that there are so many different nations in the world that might use their expertise in TRANSLATION at least they won’t look stupid as they do 🙂
Two,
It’s funny. The hateful Israeli thugs in the video look quite a bit like the brave Palestinian Freedom Fighters. I guess the big difference is that the “gunmen” in the Israeli thug crowd is trying to restrain the violence, while the “gunmen” in the Brave Palestinian Freedom Fighter crowd generally fire on the Israelis, while using the Brave Freedom Fighters for cover, in the event of return fire.
It’s also interesting that the people shooting the video had no particular fear of Israeli soldiers or police. Try filming a Palestinian riot in unoccupied Gaza. See how long you last.
Do you have links to the translated programming? I haven’t seen any. I’ve only seen media in English for consumption by us English speakers that does not correspond to what they’re saying in Arabic. Are the Friday sermons translated into English? Where? How about the disquisitions on what, exactly, it is permissible to beat your wife with? Where is that in English, other than in MEMRI? I’ve got an open mind. I’d love to see it.
Again, Two, you have faulted MEMRI for showing Islamic reformers. You have also faulted them for showing Islamic fundamentalists. What should they show? Children’s cartoons? Commercials for pita? I believe you would fault them regardless of what they showed. Prove to me otherwise.
BJ,
I think you are so blinded by Israel VS. Palestine and forgetting that those are children, Israeli children under the age of 18 who are extremists and raised to hate. They are left in the streets with no supervision from their parents.
Those little thug terrorists and their families are not different than who you claim terrorist on the other side of the fence. The only difference is that the spotlight is only on the Palestinians and their children.
The number of Palestinian children causalities as per Unicef is 819 children since the second intfada (Palestinian uprising against occupation) not to mention how many children are in the Israeli Jails. There is no comparison and the videos are clear, the police is doing nothing to stop them but some silly moves.
I fault Memri for targeting Arabs period and cut an pasting interviews to serve your purpose and their hateful agenda. I disagree you for claiming that it is a translation service.
Call 1-800-Dishnetwork and order the arabic package if you are interested to hear some Arabic news in English.
BTW I’m not upset at all as sometimes I am perceived the wrong way.
don’t like their cut and paste biased views.
What!? Was that Twosret, saying that?
Correction
“I fault Memri for targeting Arabs period and cut an pasting interviews to serve your purpose and their hateful agenda. I disagree you for claiming that it is a translation service.”
Should read
“I fault Memri for targeting Arabs period. Cutting and pasting interviews to serve their purpose and their hateful agenda. I disagree with you for claiming that it is a translation service”
“Prove to me otherwise”
It is you who need to prove to me that Memri is a translating service to all the Arabic news and they translate it complete with the good and bad news.
As Zoe says on Sesame “Don’t Goof me” 🙂
http://www.sesameworkshop.org/sesamestreet/?scrollerId=zoe&&
I think you are so blinded by Israel VS. Palestine and forgetting that those are children, Israeli children under the age of 18 who are extremists and raised to hate.
Twosret again!? *boggle*
We have excellent translators in the Arab world and MOST Arab channels have news in English, French, and even Armenian.
Can you show me the “translated by Arabs for western consumption” version of the famous “pigs & monkeys” piece? How about the one that interviews the teenage Palestinian girls who dream of being Shahids? That’s a good one too! We should all be seeing that! Fox would just fucking LOVE to run a feed of that high quality Arabic programing, Twosret! Where can we get ahold of that?
Their English is perfect and they speak fluent British with no accent. Give me a break!
Well, every Arab I’ve spoken to speaks with an American accent, not a British accent… except for the people who speak with an Egyptian accent 😛
Two,
I don’t have a dish, so no can do. But that’s not the point.
The question isn’t what Arabs are saying in English.
The question is: Is what the Arabs (meaning the leaders, political and religious, speaking publicly) say in Arabic the same as what they say in English.
The Palestinians agreed a long time to stop incitement against Jews. Following that, all their pronouncements in English were all love and harmony, while their pronouncements in Arabic were about driving Jews into the sea, etc, etc. That is why MEMRI was created. To document the incitement which was a violation of Oslo (remember Oslo…).
I’m sure Arabic news outlets have plenty of interesting things to say, which is why I hop over to Arab News and al Jazeera from time to time. But the point isn’t for me to hear what they want me to hear. The point, rather, is to hear what they don’t want me to hear. For this, I’m afraid, you necessarily have to have a contrary agenda. True, some neutral person could provide translations – in fact I’d prefer that. But what on Earth would possess someone neutral to translate. I mean, you’re neutral with regard to the pressing issues of the day in Finland. So why don’t you translate Finnish TV into some other language. Wait, I’ll answer that. It’s because you don’t give a damn about Finland, that’s why.
And I, for one, feel very badly about the number of Palestinian children that have been killed in the intifada. That is why I wish they hadn’t started it. That is also why I wish Palestinians wouldn’t glorify death so much. That is why I wish Palestinian parents would care more, rather than celebrating their children’s deaths. That is why I was upset by Saddam Hussein, among others, paying bounties for children getting killed. And that is why I want Palestinian media to stop inciting hatred and violence, which is why we need MEMRI.
bj
Two,
As for MEMRI not translating ALL the media, they have limited resources. Perhaps you could donate money or your time (since you would be a most capable translator), to further their project. I’m afraid I can’t translate for them, and despite being a rich Jew, I don’t have the cash to spare.
bj
Israeli children under the age of 18 who are extremists and raised to hate.
How do you think YOUR children will turn out, Twosret?
Twosret,
I suggest, you get it strait from the horse’s mouth.
Check this page to learn what MEMRI shows and does not show.
http://www.memritv.org/aboutus.asp
I hope it might help you to answer some if not all of your questions.
While I think it is soooo funny to finally understand what the blatantly biased Arab media is saying ( I don’t understand it). Memri, in the about us section claims that it tried to show debate that show the Western World, the Middle East’s desire to democratize, westrernize etc. While the clips do show fierce debate, most of the clips are shown to expose the “backwardness” of Arab Society in general. Be it Palestinians praising suicide bombers, or Muslims defending female circumsision, or Sadaam praise for examples.
However I have to agree with Twosret. It really is a “cut and paste” youtube. As opposed to showing everything Arab news offers , it only shows one of three things:
1) Debates on current topics that plague the arab nations today , ie. wife beating , female cirumsision, etc.
2) Speeches or interviews that boggle the mind of any Westerner who says to themselves ” those Arabs are just Camel fucks from the 8th Century”
3) Interviews with people that are either anti-Arab countries in general or Anti-Islam. IE. Wafa Sultan and that Sudanese chick for the isreali-friendship association.
I totally am aware that there are social and political and religious problems in the Arab world. And I think Memri is a hoot to watch when I wanna laugh. However, only one who doesn’t see the clear-cut biased of the clips it shows is blind!
I appreciate the Sudanese chicks stance for the Isreali-friendship association…but her anti-Arab stance is a lil extreme. Wafa Sultan is a nut and that clip that made her the instant Barack Obama ( I love the guy) of the Middle East is flawed and poorly edited. It is edited in such a way to show you how many throwdowns Wafa gave to that “backward” Azhar Sheikh. But apprently, this was not the case. In fact the real unedited version that appeared on Arab TV showed the sheikh as the one giving her appropriate throwdowns. MEMRI edts like crazy…you only see the bad and never the good.
Here is an English translation of the unedited version:
http://aqoul.com/images/wafa_sultan.pdf
Arabic:
http://www.aljazeera.net/channel/archive/archive?ArchiveId=327001
Memri, again is a hoot…and shows me how backward and corrupt the ME is…which I know already…but it is inciting hate to a degree against Arabs by ( ignorant, not all) Westerners who watch the clips.
Oh come on everyone. Twosret is right. We all know that the Arabic speakers on these clips are just actors performing scripts written by Zionist imperialist pigs from Israel. Everything in the Middle East is a conspiracy orchestrated by the Elders of Zion.
egyptchick7,
Of course they edited Wafa Sultan’s exchange. The point I’ve made (at this point, probably too many times) is that had they not edited it, had they aired the conservative guy’s views, Tworset would have condemned them for that. The are condemned if they show some backward guy’s views, and they are condemned if edit it out.
If you look at their website, they have interviews of liberals in the Arab world, and they have interviews of conservatives (fundamentalists). They cover the crazy, and they cover the insane. They have an interview of some Neturei Karta schmuck on there, so that makes them anti-Semitic? Come on! No doubt they have an agenda, but everyone has an agenda in the middle east.
The fact of the matter is, that the Arab media like to portray Islam as the pinnacle of modernity, but the Saudi Imams the highlight suggest that – at least in the case of their Wahhabist belief – they are not. The PA has said that it has stopped inciting hatred on many occasions. The PA sanctioned Friday sermons show that they have not.
On the other hand, if their goal was to show Arabs as a monolithic, implacable enemy, ideologically committed to the destruction of Israel and Jews everywhere, then why would they show liberals like Wafa Sultan and her ilk? And there have been many. It just doesn’t make sense. MEMRI is getting lambasted for showing both sides, sometimes at once (no good ‘cuz it’s like Jerry Springer), and sometimes separately (it’s to show that Arabs are backward; and Sultan and her ilk are crazy).
And I’m still waiting for someone to steer me to an Arab-based, English language translation of the interview with the Saudi head-chopper, and of the interview of the Saudi wife-beating advocate, and of the schoolgirls who want to kill Jews. If these exist, as Tworset suggested above, then MEMRI would not be necessary.
And if Tworset wants someone with no interest in the Middle East to take up the mantle of translating, then I expect her to respond in kind with a Finnish media translation service. Or Tagalog. Or Swahili. Until then, she’s just blowing smoke, and MEMRI is providing a service that otherwise wouldn’t exist, and lifting up a rock that would otherwise be unlifted.
Iyad Jamal-el-Deen is my favorite of the people they regularly put up on MEMRI.
Louise said:
“Twosret is right. We all know that the Arabic speakers on these clips are just actors performing scripts written by Zionist imperialist pigs from Israel. Everything in the Middle East is a conspiracy orchestrated by the Elders of Zion.”
You kill me Louise, so funny and not even a little bit subtle. classic. Of course Two and her ilk will agree with agree with your post without seeing the sarcasm, because, well, the “Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion” is a factual “How to” manuel on how to overthrow the world without anyone ever knowing it. At least that’s what the Arab world is taught in their schools from elementary school on. Sad and pathetic. What Two won’t admit is that if the Palis weapons, bombs, rockets, guns were removed (along with their culture of death) then peace would have a chance. If Isreal’s weapons were removed all the Isreali’s would be killed as quickly as terroristically possible.
egyptchick7 Says:”However, only one who doesn’t see the clear-cut biased of the clips it shows is blind!”
There may be a reason for the selection of the clips that they choose – and they are clearly trying to show the “real” as opposed to the “official” world of Islam – but that does not mean the clips are biased.
egyptchick7 Says:”Wafa Sultan is a nut and that clip that made her the instant Barack Obama ( I love the guy) of the Middle East is flawed and poorly edited. It is edited in such a way to show you how many throwdowns Wafa gave to that “backward” Azhar Sheikh. But apprently, this was not the case. In fact the real unedited version that appeared on Arab TV showed the sheikh as the one giving her appropriate throwdowns. MEMRI edts like crazy…you only see the bad and never the good.”
Exactly what “throwdowns” do you think he made? Their purpose was to show what she said and point out that there are reformers in the Arab world. I fail to see what the full transcript would have shown. She is such a brave woman. The Sheik could not, from what I can see, answer any of her points or questions except through more stupidity. Perhaps you saw something I did not.
egyptchick7 Says:”but it is inciting hate to a degree against Arabs by ( ignorant, not all) Westerners who watch the clips.”
It is showing Arabs talking among themselves. If anyone is inciting hatred, it is the Arabs. Take it up with them. Know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free. There can be no peace or justice based on lies. We need Memri to tell us what the Arabs really think.
BJ,
Sorry I fell asleep not that the chat was boring of course 🙂 Will reply to you later in the day. In the meantime I suggest you go back to your mature self and try to shoot the idea not the person in your responses. I know you don’t like that the EgyptChick agrees with me but Paleaze 🙂 you sound more convincing when your tone is mild 🙂 at least to those who don’t know your views 🙂
EgyptChick7,
Good luck for talking sense to people here 🙂
Two,
I’m just asking for substantive criticism of MEMRI.
I reject the criticism that they’re just trying to make Arabs or Islam look bad by showing just the nuts. They show the reformers as well.
I reject the criticism that they’re just giving the reformers a soapbox. They’re giving the fundamentalists a soapbox as well.
I reject the criticism that they’re showcasing Muslim nutters. They show Jewish nutters as well.
But most importantly, I find the complaint that they are Jews, and so have an agenda, most unpursuasive. I ask who, without an agenda, would be willing to do this? Arab media sources have not, to the best of my knowledge, made this stuff available to me and other English speakers.
So should you be angry at the people publicizing the Imam shouting “Death to the Infidel”? Or should you be angry at the Imam himself?
I’m still the same BJ, Tworset, but when your arguments are unpursuasive, they’re unpursuasive. It’s not a personal attack for saying so.
To those who criticize MEMRI I ask, “What do you think of Sandmonkey then?” Is he anti-Arab as well? Does he want English speakers to believe all Arabs are barbaric buffoons?
I find this blog and MEMRI have just the opposite effect. It’s great to hear from Arabs and Muslims who are reasonable and tolerant and believe in human freedom. They are not usually the loudest voices in the Middle East.
One of the biggest cultural divisions between the Arab world and America is how we perceive the airing of dirty laundry. Yes, it’s unpleasant, but ultimately Americans value “coming clean”. It is a very Eastern custom to be quite secretive. We simply have different values. We do not judge all Arabs to be backward because of MEMRI translations.
Twosret, you may find it ludicrous (as do we all), but these are real debates in the Middle East. They speak for themselves. MEMRI’s work is an invaluable service. And so, I might add, is Sandmonkey’s.
P.S. BrooklynJon,
Tagalog is becoming a language of emerging importance in the DoD. Can you guess why?
BrooklynJon, it was a pleasure reading your replies here. Keep it up! 🙂
shehrezad,
Tagalog is becoming a language of emerging importance in the DoD. Can you guess why?
I can’t. There are plenty of people in the US military who speak Tagalog as their native tongue. I’d go so far as to guess several in every unit. Also, the New People’s Army (communists) were at least as much trouble for the US in the 1980s as Abu Sayyef is now. I don’t really understand why this would suddenly be such a big deal, other than political correctness!
Craig, it’s surprisingly not as common as one would think. It’s always been a popular language within the 300th MI Brigade, but not because of DoD directives. It is part of the Emerging Languages Program and thus, its significance may not be fully apparent yet. Anyway, OPSEC keeps us from from really knowing anything right now.
We need a link to the transcript so that we know who these people are.
And my God, they are insane!!
Anyway, I’m not laughing.
There is murder, massacre in that man, and in those people polled. That’s no laughing matter at all. There’s a lot of death and suffering on the way, and it’s their fault.
BJ,
I used to think that Jay Leno is the best when it comes to Jay walking but this guy Rick Mercer is so good. Remember that talk on another thread about Canada VS America 🙂 You have to watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhTZ_tgMUdo
I got this on e-mail and thought I will post it quick 🙂 will reply to you and maybe others later. Enjoy!
Two,
Cute! Thanks for posting it.
“Do you have links to the translated programming? I haven’t seen any. I’ve only seen media in English for consumption by us English speakers that does not correspond to what they’re saying in Arabic. “
What are you referring to? Give me a specific example? I have seen translated interviews on many international news and I don’t think that any reliable media will translate wrong or put words on the speaker’s mouth. I mean coming from someone who is a fan of Jerry Springer it might make sense to you but it is really not the case unless you give me some links to Arab media.
“Are the Friday sermons translated into English? Where? How about the disquisitions on what, exactly, it is permissible to beat your wife with? Where is that in English, other than in MEMRI? I’ve got an open mind. I’d love to see it.”
Is that what all interest you in Islam WOW lovely, it really shows that you are seeking knowledge indeed. If you speak in direct tone and voice your displeasure with Islam or it’s worshipers just say it instead of wasting your time and mine in all those indirect, slick, “tactful” statements of yours. The only point you are trying to make here is that Islam is about beating wives, open mind? Open-minded people don’t get their education about religion or Middle Eastern culture through Memri, open minded people go to the library and borrow a book to read. In your very narrow-minded opinion you labeled a religion and it’s people. I really hope you are not getting yourself educated from T.V.
“Again, Two, you have faulted MEMRI for showing Islamic reformers. You have also faulted them for showing Islamic fundamentalists. What should they show? Children’s cartoons? Commercials for pita? I believe you would fault them regardless of what they showed. Prove to me otherwise.”
Islamic reformers? You are really thinking that this is how you reform Islam by insulting Islam like Wafaa Sultan? WOW. I would like to insult Judaism on Public T.V. and see how you will react. Promise you won’t cry anti-Semitic. I made it clear before but, you get upset too quickly and respond and not read me. I fault them for cutting and pasting interviews to suit their agenda. It makes them less reliable in my point of view. Sandmonkey showed us three videos, one is insulting Islam by Wafaa Sultan, the other one was by a Syrian poet which I tend to agree with but again it is incomplete and cutting and pasting the man’s words. The third video was about two guys from Iraq fighting.
You want me to agree with cheap cutting and pasting anti-Arab propaganda and not fault them. Are you for real? What do you want me to prove again?
Two,
“I don’t have a dish, so no can do. But that’s not the point.”
You asked for a reference for Arabic news in English I gave you a hint how to obtain them, now you are not interested? So you never wanted to know anything about translation or the Arab news in English in the first place. Interesting.
“The question isn’t what Arabs are saying in English.
The question is: Is what the Arabs (meaning the leaders, political and religious, speaking publicly) say in Arabic the same as what they say in English.”
Links please.
“The Palestinians agreed a long time to stop incitement against Jews. Following that, all their pronouncements in English were all love and harmony, while their pronouncements in Arabic were about driving Jews into the sea, etc, etc. That is why MEMRI was created. To document the incitement which was a violation of Oslo (remember Oslo…).”
Does Jews stop incitement against Arabs? What about a reality check to see who drove whom to the sea? Wanna face that fact? Yeah I remember Oslo the agreement that wanted Palestinians to behave well and shut up and work for the security of Israelis. Have you ever watched a documentary of Oslo by Clinton, Rabin, Perez and Arafat? They themselves explained in details how Oslo worked and how they played the game. Go and check it out from the mouth of Clinton, Perez, Arafat and the political parties involved. This is the kind of T.V. you need to see.
“I’m sure Arabic news outlets have plenty of interesting things to say, which is why I hop over to Arab News and al Jazeera from time to time. But the point isn’t for me to hear what they want me to hear. The point, rather, is to hear what they don’t want me to hear. For this, I’m afraid, you necessarily have to have a contrary agenda. True, some neutral person could provide translations – in fact I’d prefer that. But what on Earth would possess someone neutral to translate. I mean, you’re neutral with regard to the pressing issues of the day in Finland. So why don’t you translate Finnish TV into some other language. Wait, I’ll answer that. It’s because you don’t give a damn about Finland, that’s why.”
Checking different news media is a very sane thing to do. I will repeat what I said before, I disagree with all the interviews presented by Sandmonkey because it is simply stupid, I only found the Poet from Syria to be the best so far but the idiots at Memri cut and paste all what he said.
“And I, for one, feel very badly about the number of Palestinian children that have been killed in the intifada. That is why I wish they hadn’t started it.”
OH MY GOD !!!!! you are blaming the dead children for the IDF criminal doing. They were not killed all in the Intifada they were killed since the Intifada started. How insulting of you to say such thing. That is the worst I have ever read so far. 819 Palestinian children were shot in their heads and you come here to blame them for being shot!
http://cheztwosret.blogspot.com/2007/01/819-palestinian-children-shot-in-their.html
I’m turned off so much of replying to you after the last sentence. I’m honestly ready to puke.
Shehrazad,
Have you read my comments? I never agreed with the videos, the two idiots fighting on Al-Jazeerah is stupid. I never agreed with Wafaa Sultan because she is doing the same things she claims Islam is doing.
“I find this blog and MEMRI have just the opposite effect. It’s great to hear from Arabs and Muslims who are reasonable and tolerant and believe in human freedom. They are not usually the loudest voices in the Middle East.”
MEMRI is not the same as this blog, MEMRI is not Egyptian or Arabic the title is misleading it is Israeli with an agenda against Arab. It cuts and paste interviews to show the worst in the Arab world.
May I ask you what do you know about the loudest voices of the Middle East. Do you mean Harriri? Edward Said? Chomsky?
May I ask how many times you visited the Middle East? and where did you stay? and how you obtain your views about the loudest voices in the Middle East?
Did you ever visit Israel and drove through check points?
Shehrazad,
I didn’t mean to sound upset with you. I’m just wondering what is your background education about the Middle East.
Two,
“What are you referring to? Give me a specific example? I have seen translated interviews on many international news and I don’t think that any reliable media will translate wrong or put words on the speaker’s mouth.”
For example, there are many instances of Nobel Laureate Yassir Arafat preaching peaceful coexistance in English and – it is alleged (remember, I don’t speak Arabic) – preaching quite the opposite in Arabic to an Arabic speaking audience. It is my understanding that Abbas does the same thing. I have to give the Hamas guys credit for preaching the same bile in all languages.
“You asked for a reference for Arabic news in English I gave you a hint how to obtain them, now you are not interested?”
No, I didn’t. In fact, I already check out Arabic news sources. As I said, that’s not the point. I’m interested in seeing things that Arabic media outlets ARE NOT translating into English. In other words, what are they putting out there that they don’t want me to understand?
“Does Jews stop incitement against Arabs?”
I haven’t seen any official incitement against Arabs on TV ever. I haven’t read it as an official opinion anywhere. I’ve been to a lot of synagogues in my time, and I never heard any. Perhaps you know of some. I don’t. Enlighten me.
http://www.teachkidspeace.org/doc146.php
“Is that what all interest you in Islam WOW lovely, it really shows that you are seeking knowledge indeed.”
I’m looking for a balanced view, which includes things that they don’t want me to see, and things that they do. Should I look away, and only accept official propaganda?
“Yeah I remember Oslo the agreement that wanted Palestinians to behave well and shut up and work for the security of Israelis.”
If the Palestinians felt that it was a bad agreement, they shouldn’t have agreed to it. Instead, they agreed to it with no intention of adhering to it.
” I disagree with all the interviews presented by Sandmonkey because it is simply stupid”
No need to limit yourself to what SM links to. Go to Memri yourself and see.
“What about a reality check to see who drove whom to the sea?”
Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the Arab League, and their propaganda before invading the nascent State of Israel.
“you are blaming the dead children for the IDF criminal doing.”
I am blaming the Palestinians for starting the intifada, for sending out children to confront soldiers, for then placing gunmen into the crowd of children to shoot at soldiers and use the children as shields, for creating a culture which encourages children to place their lives at risk, and for brainwashing children that there will be a reward in heaven for their martyrdom.
“I’m turned off so much of replying to you after the last sentence. I’m honestly ready to puke.”
Knock your socks off.
If you want to believe that I am disingenuous in my sorrow at their deaths, then that is your choice. However, I believe you are projecting.
I don’t know about you, but I dream of a day when all the people of the Middle East can prosper in their countries in security and safety, and in a climate of mutual tolerance, if not harmony. I hope you have the same dream.
Twosret, I have often wondered, what is *your* personal background regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, beyond a vendetta passed down through your family? Have *you* ever passed through an IDF checkpoint, or simply eaten a falafel in Tel-Aviv?
To be honest-
I’m getting just a tad sick of all the “media hates Islam” stuff
Why do we need the media to make us look bad? We do a good job of that ourselves.
Muslims should stop focussing on the “out there” and start looking at the “in here”.
Doesn’t matter who or where or why showed this clip- it’s not the showing of the clip that we need to address- it’s the fact that people actually have the the kinds of warped views expressed there. What good is debating MEMRI’s agenda or otherwise going to do? It just diverts attention away from the real issue here.
I’ve read every article that Muslim sites like to point at to prove that MEMRI is bad. But if you actually read the articles you find that MEMRI is so damn careful that they’ve never been caught changing anything at all. At most there was a couple of slight arguments over which among very similar words had a closer connotation, and one mistranscribed date, and that was it.
MEMRI is obviously very aware that they will be critisized and work as hard as possible to make their translations above dispute.
I would say that Twosret, like many Muslims, thinks that Islam should be completely immune to criticism. That of course comes directly from Islam. Those “cartoon” protestors in England who carried signs which read “Behead those who criticize Islam” were, unfortunately, just parroting the traditional stance, and the traditional punishment.
Muslims are supposed to be respected as superior to everyone else, and it comes through in this attitude. Even though few will admit that they have this attitude, they do have this attitude!
But we non Muslims have fought for our rights to freedom of speech, freedom of thought and freedom of criticism, and we will not give it up to anyone. If you demand absolute respect, we will always have to refuse. And if you threaten us, either from within or without, we will prefer battle to surrendering our freedom. We will not compromise our freedom, ever.
Actually, if memory serves, Twosret is not Muslim. Her reasons against MEMRI are that it’s a bunch of Zionists with an agenda to blemish the Arabs. *eyeroll*
TUS, your comments are a sight for sore eyes, as always. 🙂
Roman if her attitude is really Arabs can never be “blemished” with criticism rather than Muslims can never be critisized by inferiorinfidels, then she’s probably just internalized the haughtiness of Arab culture without understanding the reasoning behind it.
Nah, mate, I reckon it’s more to do with the Zionists than it is to do with the Arabs. See, Zionist = Liar, Murderer, Fanatic, Scum. As such, anything said by a Zionist must be fought tooth and nail. Twosret has this… obsession. Quite unfortunate.
Mind you, if *you* say anything to support a Zionist then you become a kind of quasi-Zionist yourself. Take care with what you say, lest ye be labeled as one. 😉
Usual Suspect,
What a breath of fresh air!
Truth be told, at my Jewish elementary school, at synagogue, at home, with my friends growing up, I never heard any anti-Islam messages. We always had a healthy respect for Islam, in terms of its practice being somewhat similar to Judaism, and in terms of the Muslims having been much nicer to us for the preceeding 1000 years or so than the Christians had.
I have seen a lot of insistance lately that the anti-semitism which is widespread in Arab/Muslim media and is taught in some mosques, is the mirror image of the anti-Muslim sentiment expressed by Jews (in media, in synagogues, and expressed by mainstream Jews among ourselves). This just does not correspond to my experience. I’m sure there are some fringe elements somewhere that do this, but by and large, most Jews just want to be left alone, and really have no elemental hatred of anyone.
I’m glad, Usual S, that we have partners in peaceful tolerance.
BJ,
One of my personal favorites in Jewish history is the history of the Sephardic Jewish community in Muslim/Arab countries. When their European counterparts were burned, pogromed, forcibly converted or simply deported on a regular basis, it usually wasn’t like that at all in Muslim countries.
I mean, during the Rambam’s time (Maimonides, for those wondering, Rabbi Moshe ben-Maimon. One of the greatest Jewish religious scholars and ,interestingly enough, also a very good doctor and the personal physician of Saladin), the most you had was ONE group of fanatical nutjobs, the Almuhadeans, the occasional stupid local ruler who was put in place when his actions were reported to the man above him in the ruling hierarchy, and by and large that was it.
I mean sure, Jews were second-rate citizens, but at least their rights were kept. In Europe, Jews were kindling. In Muslim countries, Muslim and Jewish scholars could debate matters in a much freer manner than in Europe, where a debate with a priest was an automatic loss. It was this environment that allowed the Golden Age of Judaism to take place.
If anything, I was taught to respect Islam, and Muslims. Even those of the Sephardic community who were forced out by the Arab states, or were slowly forced to convert in Yemen, even those Jews remember the good more than they remember the bad. They don’t blame Islam. They don’t blame their Muslim neighbors of old. Even though the children of their old neighbors think they’re evil, or have simply erased them from their memory as if they never existed.
Judasim preaches hate towards Islam and Muslims? Not as far as this Jew ever heard. As BJ said, there are fringe elements, as there are fringe elements everywhere. But they are just that, fringe elements.
I spent my Sunday morning at a Muslim forum- some group is doing a study and is holding a series of focus groups with Muslims around Australia.
As usual there were the familiar cries of victimisation, “they hate us”, “the want to destroy us” etc etc. When it came time to talk about solution I said:
“Here’s a solution. I think we should stop engaging with this whole victim mentality. We are not victims. So the media gives us a bad rap every now and then- so what? What are we going to do about it? Instead of talking about how much “they” hate “us” we should be trying to improve ourselves.”
A nice little group of converts sitting in a row covered from head to toe, swathed in black, peered over their glasses, persed their lips and shot me the most evil look. One turned to the other and said “Ofcourse she is going to say that- what does she know about being a victim- she doesn’t wear hijab”.
Then the gaggle offered their own brilliant solution. Wait for it- it’s a good one…
ready….
“The Australian government should legislate to make it legal for Muslim men to marry four wives because some of us who are third and fourth wives are suffering because we are not recognised by the legal system as wives.”
Yes, that will solve everything won’t it. Ho hum.
😀
Suspect, it’s as if you weren’t even there. They were just there to reassure each other, apparently, not use their god-given brains.
Roman Kalik Says:”One of my personal favorites in Jewish history is the history of the Sephardic Jewish community in Muslim/Arab countries. When their European counterparts were burned, pogromed, forcibly converted or simply deported on a regular basis, it usually wasn’t like that at all in Muslim countries.”
Not like that at all? The Myth of Islamic tolerance has been used for years by Jews and atheists to attack the Catholic Church. But in real life, well it was like that on both sides of the Mediterranean as it happens. Maybe a little more on the northern side, but not a difference of kind, only degree.
Roman Kalik Says:”I mean, during the Rambam’s time (Maimonides, for those wondering, Rabbi Moshe ben-Maimon. One of the greatest Jewish religious scholars and ,interestingly enough, also a very good doctor and the personal physician of Saladin), the most you had was ONE group of fanatical nutjobs, the Almuhadeans, the occasional stupid local ruler who was put in place when his actions were reported to the man above him in the ruling hierarchy, and by and large that was it.”
And at any one time in Europe, you only had one set of fanatical nutjobs and the occasional local stupid ruler – not that reporting problems ever stopped them in the Islamic world. There is no difference here and it is ironic that you should mention Rambam because he had to flee Spain because of the nation wide persecution of Jews at the time. Have you ever read what he said about the Muslim rulers of Spain at that time?
Roman Kalik Says:”I mean sure, Jews were second-rate citizens, but at least their rights were kept. In Europe, Jews were kindling.”
Odd that so many Jews should have survived in Europe then isn’t it?
Roman Kalik Says:”In Muslim countries, Muslim and Jewish scholars could debate matters in a much freer manner than in Europe, where a debate with a priest was an automatic loss.”
Tell me of one single debate that a Jew won in the Muslim world. Any debate with Muslims was also an automatic loss.
Twosret,
My background is in US military intelligence and beyond that, I’m sorry I can’t answer your questions. But my experience (or relative lack of it compared to yours) is really neither here nor there. I understand you didn’t mean to sound upset with me; thank you. But it’s obvious you are upset somehow. I assume you have personal experience with the Arab-Israeli conflict and I would never dismiss your grievances. That wasn’t the topic of conversation.
HeiGou,
The Jews were burned for ‘poisoning wells’, the Jews were burned for ‘stealing Christian babies’, the Jews were burned for making money, and for being poor.
If one fast-forwards Jewish history in Europe, one sees communities always on the run, going to the land of this benevolent ruler only to be turned out and robbed by him or by his sons when they needed money or wanted points with the Church.
Yes, I read what the Rambam said of the Almuhadeans. I also read what so many European Jews wrote.
Roman Kalik Says:”The Jews were burned for ‘poisoning wells’, the Jews were burned for ’stealing Christian babies’, the Jews were burned for making money, and for being poor.”
Actually I think you may have trouble listing large numbers of Jews who were burned for all or even any of those things. Burning wasn’t a common punishment after all. There is no denying this. But there is also no denying that Jews were executed for these sorts of things in the Middle East – and just for being Jews.
Roman Kalik Says:”If one fast-forwards Jewish history in Europe, one sees communities always on the run, going to the land of this benevolent ruler only to be turned out and robbed by him or by his sons when they needed money or wanted points with the Church.”
Just as Rambam had to flee Spain for Egypt. If you fast forward Jewish history in the Middle East there are not a lot of places Jews remained at peace for long periods of time.
Roman Kalik Says:”Yes, I read what the Rambam said of the Almuhadeans. I also read what so many European Jews wrote.”
Undoubtedly. So I can understand why you were taught what you were taught, but why hold to it when the reality is more complex?
…819 Palestinian children were shot in their heads…
Sounds like bbvious black propaganda to me.
I looked at your blog and noticed that you said you couldn’t bring yourself to post the pictures of shot children.
Well I have another set of picures you should look at, the pictures of Palestinian “militants” engaged in battle while surrounded by a large groups of children as human shields. I’ve been shocked to see such pictures, many times. I too found such pictures too disturbing to post, but it’s funny that it tells a different story about responsibility.
I remember an interview with a Palestinian broadcaster who talked about how hard it is to keep your child from attacking soldiers when they’re taught in schools, and from the TV and radio propaganda that this is what they should be doing. Obviously, parents don’t have the freedom to oppose this propaganda, so the solution he mentioned was what a friend of his did. Chain his child in his house, so he won’t go out with the gangs and get killed.
Palestinian leaders and militias seem to have decided, long ago, that the most effective propaganda is always a dead child, and so they’ve done their very best to insure that there are as many dead children as possible.
This makes them completely beyond understanding. Beyond all humanity.
On the other hand, they also understand that the israelis are reluctant to kill children. That’s why Hamas “spiritual leader” Sheik Yassin kept himself surrounded by lots of human shields, I mean children, at his home. Which is also why the Israelis waited until he was alone, on route from his mosque, to blow him up.
…In any case, you’re claiming that one fifth of all deaths in the intifada are children who were shot above the chest… I have to run right now, but I suspect that such a claim is easily disproved.
HeiGou, burnings were uncommon, but only relatively speaking. They were still far too common in general.
Secondly, I do not hold an idyllic view of the midieval Muslim world, nor was I merely ‘taught’. I am very much capable of independent thought and study.
And what I saw was that the Muslim world lacked the zealous hatred, the notion that Jews were somehow not human, which was prevalent in Europe.
Yes, Jews were mistreated in Muslim countries, sometimes very badly. But this was on a much smaller scale.
Yes, Jews were mistreated in Muslim countries, sometimes very badly. But this was on a much smaller scale.
Roman, so what? The reverse is true right now. The Salafis are spreading the notion that Jews are kafirs that should be killed, the Iranians are starting the same and what are the Palestinians doing?
BrooklynJon,
You are wasting your breath (and fingures). Twosret is a biological Anti-semite. In her post Christmas post entitled “Jews against Christmas” she combined a Nazi-style caricature of Jews with the following statements:
– A Jew “threatened to sue the airport because the Christmas trees insult his religion” (he did not. A Hasidic Rabi demanded for a menora to be installed as well as the Christmas tree, which was stupid but very different from T’s lie).
– Jews, “3% of the population set the agenda for 97% of the remaining majority” in the USA
– “The de-Christianization and the increasing Judaicization of America is because of one subsect group alone” -the “vocal Jewish Fascists”
Here
is more.
She is also unbelievably dumb as is demonstrated by her attack on MEMRI.
“Twosret,
My background is in US military intelligence and beyond that, I’m sorry I can’t answer your questions.”
Shehrazad,
Thanks for you kind words. I’m not sure exactly what is the nature of your work but I can guarantee you a field trip to the Palestinian occupied land will give a whole different perspective about reality on the ground.
Many people name it extremists or others takes advantage of the noble cause of the Palestinians which is land and nothing but land. Politics is dirty and the real people pay the price for the Politicians mistakes. I don’t believe that many presidents of the US, Israel and many other countries involved in this grave situation hasn’t been able to solve this eternal problems.
Israelis, Palestinians, and American politicians are at fault. To be specific England shares the most burden of the agony the Palestinians are facing now.
” But my experience (or relative lack of it compared to yours) is really neither here nor there. I understand you didn’t mean to sound upset with me; thank you. But it’s obvious you are upset somehow.”
Yes, I was upset because the manipulation of the Zionist agenda voiced by many here and by AIPAC and it’s lobby in the US is beyond belief. Blaming innocent dead children for their death is a horrible statement.
” I assume you have personal experience with the Arab-Israeli conflict and I would never dismiss your grievances. That wasn’t the topic of conversation. ”
Thank you and I appreciate your understanding. Let us hope that the human kind will be more merciful to each other and will chose better ways than war, destruction and death.
Ok, I remember her now.
Yuck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCyqYAg6OXI
Josh, should I hate Islam, then? Or should I hope that one of these days enough Muslims wake up to see the pit they’ve dug their people into?
One can learn a great deal from history. We can but hope that others do the same.
Shlemazl, thanks for bringing up that post. I knew Twosret had some issues with conspiracy theories, but this is just plain old-fashioned anti-Semitism. ‘sigh’
Twosret remark was clear if anyone should be offended from the figure it will be Santa Clause.The Jew Paranoia is impressing. I love how cool you are Twosret.
HO HO HO psychos.
Ah, I think maybe I understand Tworset’s vitriol…giving a little benefit of doubt. Here’s is my original paragraph, which seems to have unhinged Tworset and made her want to puke:
“And I, for one, feel very badly about the number of Palestinian children that have been killed in the intifada. That is why I wish they hadn’t started it. That is also why I wish Palestinians wouldn’t glorify death so much. That is why I wish Palestinian parents would care more, rather than celebrating their children’s deaths. That is why I was upset by Saddam Hussein, among others, paying bounties for children getting killed. And that is why I want Palestinian media to stop inciting hatred and violence, which is why we need MEMRI.”
I think the “they” in the second sentence could be misread to mean “the Palestinian Children”. Of course Palestinian children didn’t start the intifada. The Palestinians in general, and Yassir Arafat (pbuh) did, and that is to whom the “they” refers. If my lack of clarity has upset anyone, please allow me to apologize.
And Two, I will accept that Israel, America, and England share some of the blame for the Palestinians’ terrible situation. But you fail to place blame on the Arab countries who have used them as pawns, and the Palestinian leadership – political and religious – who seem to have chosen violent absolutism over peaceful compromise at every turn. There are heroes and vilains on every side, which is readily apparent unless you are blinded by ideology.
Two,
nice video. You do realize it’s propaganda, don’t you?
BrooklynJon,
Twosret wrote,
“Israelis, Palestinians, and American politicians are at fault. ”
BrooklynJon wrote,
“But you fail to place blame on the Arab countries who have used them as pawns, and the Palestinian leadership – political and religious – who seem to have chosen violent absolutism over peaceful compromise at every turn.”
It is either my screen is reading different or this conflict is blind. For the love of Christ What do you guys drink,whatever it is can I have some?
“Two,
nice video. You do realize it’s propaganda, don’t you?”
Fuck it man, my screen says comedy this mac SOB I’m using needs to be thrown out of the window.
technically speaking, the video is quite funny, with good features, but the message is of “I have a dream…”, did actually Martin Luther king got real resusts ?
Berry,
Am I to understand that you do not believe that the Arab countries surrounding Israel/Palestine have been using the Palestinians as pawns?
That you believe that their decision to place the refugees in camps and leave them there for 60 years was not politically motivated?
That Jordan’s occupation of the West Bank, and Egypt’s occupation of Gaza was done with the Palestinians in mind?
As for the video, of course its comedy. I thought it was worth a chuckle. It’s also propaganda. Subtle, but there’s a clear message in it, and it’s not entirely benign.
I drink Cointreau. I’d be happy to share some with you.
bj
BrooklynJon,
This whole Israel/Palestine shit is such a pain in the arse that I would like to see them kill each other. I make few comments about this whole issue and my input was just to correct/make a note of something obvious. I think the SOB’s are many and the girl amazes me of how she keeps her cool. I see passion and courage that triggers some curiosity more than anything else.
Anywhoooo, better run and get that Cointreau, cheaper than damaging my mac sucker.
Nomad,
Results? drink Cointreau mademoiselle.
Cheers
thanks, we make it for american dreamers, we don’t drink that sweet stuff 😆
I like how Jordan has 77% of the land that was originally set aside for a Palestinean state, and used tanks to run people over to get it, but nobody in the pro-Palestinean side seems to have a problem with that.
d00d, it sounds like it turned out to not be about land after all. Who knew?
Berry,
I know I sound like an evil, anti-humanitarian to say this but, I’m a firm believer in the theory that armistices and cease-fires beget wars, while wars fought to their conclusion beget peace. Now I know that war is awful, and I really do wish everyone could live in peace. But I think the single thing that keeps the Israeli-Palestinian, or Israeli-Arab thing going more than anything else is that the wars and battles are never fought all-out, and never to their logical conclusion.
That’s not to say that there needs to be a genocide or anything like that. Not at all. But there needs to be a convincing victory by one side that causes the other side to capitulate, give up their dreams, and sue for peace on the grounds that whatever they can get by negotiations will be far better than whatever they can get by continued fighting.
F’rinstance, the American Civil War. An awful, horrific rout. When the South surrendered, they gave up their dream, and that was that.
World War II. Germany and Japan were utterly destroyed and had to beg for mercy. At that point, they would accept whatever the Allies would demand gratefully in exchange for peace.
Contrariwise, we have World War I, the classic example of a war which was never really won. Which led to World War II.
The fighting between Israel and HA this summer is another classic example (okay, too recent to be classic, but it will be).
Virtually every war that has its outcome forced on it by an outside party leaves the warring parties believing that if only they tried this tactic, or had that weapon, it would have turned out differently.
My sincere wish is for both sides to be so sick of fighting that they’d be wiling to give up their dream for the sake of peace. It would be terrific if that could happen without any more suffering for both sides. G-d willing, it will happen soon.
Josh,
is it dOOd? I thought it was d00d.
Nomad,
Thanks for the Cointreau. Never did care for Grand Marnier, though.
I am afraid it’s not a good taste nowadays, they are supposed ladies liquors 😛
BrooklynJon,
I’m afraid we both sound evil and anti-humanitarian while others (wink wink at Twosret) are very fragile. I better not check this topic again, when she comes back she will fuck me so hard for what I said. Can’t blame her. I would fuck myself hard for what I said 🙂 Take shelter Jon.
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