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4 years in jail. 3 years for disdain for religions and 1 year for insulting the president. I am on my way back from there right now. I will have a report up in PJM and will be on BBC's world have your say talkin about it. Stay tuned!
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*Sigh*
Saddening… 4 years for questioning a political view and the human interpretation of one of several religions found around the world…!
Oh boy, am I glad I live in scandinavia!!!
How sad and infuriating.
Hopefully the international attention that you and other bloggers helped draw to his case will pressure The Man to reconsider.
Nice quote in Reuters by the way SM- bet you never expected Reuters to refer to “Rantings of a Sandmonkey” when you started this blog.
I hear ya, Adam. Thank God I live in the USA.
Is there no way to help him now?
Please Egyptians – help get this kid out of jail!!! Do something!
SM, tear’em a new one tonight!!
Sandmonkey —
I saw you quoted in Reuters. Be careful. Don’t think it can’t happen to you.
I think I’ll author a nice little acidic letter to one of our major newspapers… Not much in itself, but if enough people follow suit, it might amount to a nasty slap in the face of the egyptian government around the western world – not a pleasant thought for a culture obsessed with keeping a straight face…!
What do we expect from a relic from the stone age like Fundamental Islam? Too bad a few self serving Mulsims have to ruin it for the rest of you. The only virgins that terrorists/suicide bombers will recive will be the sphincters of of the jihadists that have gone into oblivion before them. (and I’m not so sure about the virgin part…)
I think that Adam B. has a great idea – spreading word through online and traditional media can only help this guy out.
Free Kareem! is on it. Get up there and support them. Hamsa has a petition. Both are accessible from here: http://morphemetales.blogspot.com/2007/02/kareem-sentenced-to-four-years-in.html.
Sorry for him, but its not a surprise for anyone, no ? It’s a miracle that a few blogs exist in Egypt, continue your fight !
Sandmonkey, if one day you feel that you have some trouble, cross the Sinai, i’ll give you a connection in Jerusalem 😉
Islam takes criticism and differing thought quite well I must say, huh. It used to be “behead” and now it’s just “imprison.” Who says Islam can’t moderate?
And so everyone raise your hand if you think this impending “reform of Islam” that a few moderates dream of is a complete and utter joke and that it will NEVER EVER happen – as evident by the entire Muslim world moving towards fanatacism these days (every single country) with Egypt now leading the way.
“Oh yeah, but Christianity had violence remember the Crusades, Inquisitions, blah, blah, blah blah” Yeah, but Islam isn’t Christianity!! That lame arguement doesn’t work anymore. Islam will never change, I guarantee it. Clash of Civilizations…???
Consider:
The missing element in every human ‘solution’ is
an accurate definition of the creature.
The way we define ‘human’ determines our view of self,
others, relationships, institutions, life, and future. Many
problems in human experience are the result of false
and inaccurate definitions of humankind premised
in man-made religions and humanistic philosophies.
Human knowledge is a fraction of the whole universe.
The balance is a vast void of human ignorance. Human
reason cannot fully function in such a void; thus, the
intellect can rise no higher than the criteria by which it
perceives and measures values.
Humanism makes man his own standard of measure.
However, as with all measuring systems, a standard
must be greater than the value measured. Based on
preponderant ignorance and an egocentric carnal
nature, humanism demotes reason to the simpleton
task of excuse-making in behalf of the rule of appe-
tites, desires, feelings, emotions, and glands.
Because man, hobbled in an ego-centric predicament,
cannot invent criteria greater than himself, the humanist
lacks a predictive capability. Without instinct or trans-
cendent criteria, humanism cannot evaluate options with
foresight and vision for progression and survival. Lack-
ing foresight, man is blind to potential consequence and
is unwittingly committed to mediocrity, collectivism,
averages, and regression – and worse. Humanism is an
unworthy worship.
The void of human ignorance can easily be filled with
a functional faith while not-so-patiently awaiting the
foot-dragging growth of human knowledge and behav-
ior. Faith, initiated by the Creator and revealed and
validated in His Word, the Bible, brings a transcend-
ent standard to man the choice-maker. Other philo-
sophies and religions are man-made, humanism, and
thereby lack what only the Bible has:
1.Transcendent Criteria and
2.Fulfilled Prophetic Validation.
The vision of faith in God and His Word is survival
equipment for today and the future. Only the Creator,
who made us in His own image, is qualified to define
us accurately.
Human is earth’s Choicemaker. Psalm 25:12 He is by
nature and nature’s God a creature of Choice – and of
Criteria. Psalm 119:30,173 His unique and definitive
characteristic is, and of Right ought to be, the natural
foundation of his environments, institutions, and re-
spectful relations to his fellow-man. Thus, he is orien-
ted to a Freedom whose roots are in the Order of the
universe.
“We have the gift of an inner liberty so far-reaching
that we can choose either to accept or reject the God
who gave it to us, and it would seem to follow that the
Author of a liberty so radical wills that we should be
equally free in our relationships with other men.
Spiritual liberty logically demands conditions of outer
and social freedom for its completion.” Edmund A. Opitz
That human institution which is structured on the
principle, “…all men are endowed by their Creator with
…Liberty…,” is a system with its roots in the natural
Order of the universe. The opponents of such a system are
necessarily engaged in a losing contest with nature and
nature’s God. Biblical principles are still today the
foundation under Western Civilization and the American
way of life. To the advent of a new season we commend the
present generation and the “multitudes in the valley of
decision.”
Let us proclaim it. Behold!
The Season of Generation-Choicemaker Joel 3:14 KJV
– from The HUMAN PARADIGM
SEMPER FIDELIS
The sentence has brought about a lot of media-attention at least here in Finland. In the news there have also been references to the RSF demand no to hold the upcoming Internet Governance forum in Egypt, as planned.
These sorts of gag rules have brought about nothing except public unrest! Decisions to limit the freedom of speech in the Internet will not be made without consequence and retaliation.
Joonas Turunen
Finland
Hey SM,
I know you can’t just keep your head down, this sort of stuff is wrong and everyone knows it. So, as an atheist, I’ll be praying for you (goes to show how worried I am for ya….)
Good luck and god bless.
I am absolutely disgusted with this sentence. Hell, the whole of the free world would be in prison for saying something against their elected officials if there wasn’t freedom of speech; in fact, it is one of our favourite past times.
Sandmonkey, I hope you have your passport and an open-ended plane ticket or even a camel ready, so if you have to, you can get the hell out of dodge in a hurry.
I think the free-world should boycott Egypt by withholding their tourist dollars, for a start.
I hope they will leave you alone, SM. Bastards. And yes, we should spread the word – this is a definite one.
Oh boy, am I glad I live in scandinavia!!!
Really? What would happen to you if you tried the exact same thing vis-a-vis Islam living in Scandanavia? I guess you could live with Geert Wilders or move to the United States, if you didn’t go to jail for “inciting racial hatred.”
I feel helpless, the only sympathy is that blogging stings do hurt!
This fight seems to be very long,…….. bloody and long!
Forget all the rhetoric.How do we get him out?Is there any way?Any realistic suggestions?Someone has to go to bat for him against all those B.S.S.M.’s!
i call my president a putz everyday. hey bush your a putz. the U.S. does have its privelages. lets break him out and we can start a new blog called sprungmonkey
🙁
Will he at least be allowed to remain out of jail until his appeal?
Yes this Regime is very bad, you folks are being mislead,The Muslim Brotherhood, is a modern day Taliban be careful what you wish for as the saying goes. Sand Monkey be careful who you aline your self with, rock or hard place comes to mind
if there is only thing i did like about this guy it would be his support for Lebanon during the last summer war
other than that he was pretty pathetic, when some readers of his blog proved to him that in more than one of his articles he depended on fabricated hadiths and historic accounts he didn’t have the integrity to admit that he was wrong
Btesh
“The Muslim Brotherhood, is a modern day Taliban”
according to Foxnews or according to the very same dictatorship-filled Egyptian regime?
go to the Muslim Brotherhood english website, read what they say, learn about their agenda, and have a mind of your own, don’t be just a number in the cattle
http://www.ikhwan.tv/Home.asp?zPage=Systems&System=PressR&Lang=E
I do not mean to be a party pooper but I do not think anything can be done to help Abdel Karim at this point.
That is, your ideas are wonderful but you are looking at it from ‘free world’ perspective.
SM could probably tell you that progressive force in Egypt has not reached its critical mass just yet.
Also, I do not think Egyptian government particularly worried about public opinion abroad. May be with exception to its ME neighbors.
If insult to the President might not fly alone but aided by religious charges it could be bundled together in to neat package.
I only hope Abdel Karim will survive jail with his health and sole intact.
Although, I would love to be wrong.
Sorry for being so pessi-realistic.
PS. Egyptian blogger Big Pharaoh stopped blogging today. He sited heavy load at work as reason and said he has to take few month break. There may be nothing to it and it could be just a coincidence but if I may suggest, SM check this out. Precedent had been created, beware of witch hunt.
Hi SM,
First off kudos for you for being brave enough to post your thoughts despite the inherent danger of doing so. Be careful and safe.
Secondly, is there a defense fund or something else for Abdel Karim? Even a letter writing or boycott campaign that one can become involved in on his behalf?
Thirdly, you speak of the lack of modernization of Islam and I agree to some extent but on the other hand, you represent to me that modernization that is so lacking…
keep up the good fight…
This is truly shocking news. I want to help spread the word. I’m an ex-american (not proud of it) living in Europe for 11 years, many times blasting my ex-country as well as the current one, happy to have the freedom to do so. I hope this doesn’t start a precedent for Egyptian bloggers.
I’ll be checking back for more news. Thanks, SandMonkey for your attention to this outrage.
I STARTED READING YOUR BLOG AFTER THE (EID ASSULT) YOU’RE BLOG WAS THE ONLY PLACE I COULD GET THE STORY AND WHAT REALLY HAPPENED, SINCE THEN I HAVE BEEN READING EVERYDAY AND I AM SO SAD TO HERE ABOUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED….. 4 YEARS IT’S SO SAD…… PLEASE TAKE CARE OF YOU’RE SELF………
Does anybody know if Kareem is allowed to receive mail in prison? And the address?
My condolonces on this ridiculous sentence. As an American it’s heartening to realize there are actually brave upstanding people willing to risk their lives to stop religious idiocy even within Islamic countries. This sentence is a glaring black eye for Egypt, a supposedly ‘moderate’ country. Keep up the good fight!
Nasser @ 24: – How about according to Human Standards! The Muslim Brotherhood’s ideology is exactly what put Kareem Amer in prison today. Actually, I wonder, where does Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood stand on this position?? Why don’t you tell the good people of this blog whether the Ikhwan are in support or aginst this verdict that was handed out today. Hell, if they were in power, this 4 year prison sentence would be just a slap on the wrist. Actually, as a matter of fact, where do YOU stand on this verdict Nasser? It may be time for you to go and re-read the Brotherhood’s agenda.
Spare the readers of this blog about the Muslim Brotherhood’s righteousness – I don’t think anyone here is buying it.
go to the Muslim Brotherhood english website, read what they say, learn about their agenda, and have a mind of your own, don’t be just a number in the cattle
And how naive would a person have to be to take the MB’s English website at face value? When speaking to the Western press Hamas, Fatah, MB and Hizbolla representatives all try to sound “moderate”, but catch them speaking to their supporters when they think the West isn’t watching and it’s a completely different message.
There’s no doubt that the MB wants an Islamic sharia state in Egypt and they won’t deny this (even if they won’t confirm it when speaking to the Western press), and thus comparisons to the Taliban have some merit.
But whatever; I don’t live there. If you want Egypt to adopt Saudi Arabian style laws and a shooting war with Israel, go ahead and support the MB. Just don’t try to convince us with their propaganda that they’re a moderate group.
It is outrageous.
There is a website that is trying to help him:
http://www.freekareem.org/
Hey Nasser – The Muslim Brotherhood is about as ‘moderate’ as Sandmonkey is a ‘terrorist!’
Good luck convincing anyone here of your opinion on the Ikhwan….
It’s sooo wrong!
Snadmonkey:
Be careful.
Anonymused
where do i stand on this verdict? exactly where everyone here stand on the verdict of David Irving for example
as far as i know his free of speech got them few years in jail more than what Kareem got….correct me if i am wrong but Irving was jailed in Austria for expressing his different opinion about a historic event
in the dictator repressive Egypt a blogger was arrested for “expressing his views” and in the liberal democratic Austria a writer was jailed for the same reason, but in the first case you protest, and in the later you…just stay silent…..you know because in some cases it doesn’t deserve defending “free speech”
it’s not about free speech….just think about it……it’s about hypocrisy
and to emphasis on this point i have a link of your Kareem commenting on the arrest of a Muslim writer….Kareem say “he deserve to be arrested and punished because he fueled sectarian hatred by writing”…the man only mistake was criticizing Christianity…..anyway….Kareem received justice according to his very own stand on the arrest of this Muslim writer
and as for the Muslim Brotherhood…enough to say that the Jihadis gave them the nickname “the surrender brotherhood” because of their extra peaceful agenda and their moderate views
David Irving is a funny case. No, I don’t believe he should be in jail for being stupid, however he had previously tried to use British libel laws to shut up someone who called him stupid, that being a good country to try such a stunt. He wound up reaping a very poetic whirlwind, if not a just one.
Anyway, good luck to those who are willing to stand up for their arguments.
here is where the free speech champion say that the Islamic writer should be arrested for his writings
http://mabadali.blogspot.com/2005/12/blog-post_10.html#c113482800070903835
again the writer (Abu Islam Ahmad Abdullah) was charged with insulting a religious group (Christians) during a debate he was having with a Christian priest
wake up and smell the hypocrisy
Good luck SM, you’re a hero to many of us here in the US and elsewhere in the West.
Have courage and be safe.
I don’t know how else we can make connections between people and knock down the barriers between us, if we are forbidden to speak to each other.
We’ve been imprisoned by hatred, bigotry and fear. It’s creating so much war and violence, totally unnecessary and such a tragic waste. We’re all just people, after all!
Take care and bless you for your brave fight.
Nasser, about your hero David Irving:
“David John Cawdell Irving (born March 24, 1938) is a British writer specializing in the military history of World War II. He is the author of 30 books, including The Destruction of Dresden (1963), Hitler’s War (1977), Uprising (1981), Churchill’s War (1987), and Goebbels — Mastermind of the Third Reich (1996).
Irving’s credentials as a historian have been discredited as a result of controversy surrounding his Holocaust denial and misrepresentation of historical evidence. During an unsuccessful libel case Irving brought against American historian Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin Books in 1998, an English court found that he is “an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism.” The judge also ruled that Irving had “for his own ideological reasons persistently and deliberately misrepresented and manipulated historical evidence.” [1][2] He served a prison sentence in Austria from February to December 2006 for Holocaust denial[3].”
—————–
And as prisoners of cosnsicence you compare Kareem to this scumbag?? It says everything about what YOUR character!
But you’re were hundred percent correct about, “it’s not about free speech….just think about it……it’s about hypocrisy”
Very very true but for some reason you see it backwards.
Perfect solution: ban religion, unless it can proove its claims empirically. Why provide an excuse for the people to be ignorant?
Crazy, just fucking crazy.
I wish everyone on this blog could read Arabic and understand the comments that are on Al-Aribaya’s new site.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2007/02/22/31947.htm
Just about all of them are like Nasser’s. 95% of the comments support the sentence, some are even saying that this is not harsh enough, while others, of course, are caliming that he should be killed for blasphemy!!! Welcome to ‘moderate’ Egypt.
Democracy in Egypt??? LOL. Arabs can only be ruled by a dictator/monarch, Iraq is proving that. You give these people decomcracy and they’ll elect Ayman Al-Zawahiri and welcome a theocracy. Unfortuantlely, it looks like Arabs really AREN’T worthy of democracy.
ISLAM is a sham as are all world religions , mind control of the masses by the few for exploitation , jail my ass i dare you . allah laughs at you every day for being so ignorant .
Every dam time I turn around something happens that has me put off, again, a lifetime desire to go to see the pyramids. How’s this sound? Crate up all those neat old ruins and reassemble them on the strip in Las Vegas?
Anonymused, I don’t read Arabic, but it seems like you are being a bit unfair on Arabs. ? Maybe the commentators are feeling like victims, and they don’t want someone on their own side seemingly betraying them. You get those responses in ANY country. For instance, look at what is happening with David Hicks in Australia. People are starting to support him now, but a few years ago the many were of the opinion that he was on the side with the ‘others’ and he deserved his fate. It doesn’t mean that AUstralians don’t deserve democracy (I live in hope we will start being less apathetic snart). Or that Danish dude who freaked out over the pig-queen cartoon thing. He was spewing vile – but that was just his temporary anger. But the dude was Danish – they are so happy and nice, man, they make lego. They don’t really mean it when they get mad like that.
You have people like this commentator above, jeffwho1, saying insulting things on one side; You have the people who want to pig-queen cartoon competition happening: Of course one side is going to react to the other.
We just have to try to stop reacting angrily.
If this sounds like I am preaching, sorry.
My wife and I have been making plans for are cruise that would have taken in Egypt. Those plans are over. We feel very strongly about mans God given right to express ones own opinion. No government should imprison a man for thinking and expressing those thoughts.
The Bahamas are nice in the fall. Too bad though, a visit to Egypt was a life long dream for both of us.
I too have read that the vast majority of Eygpt’s populace agrees with the sentence. That’s not at all surprising. Democracy requires that the populace be able to think for themselves. It’s been long apparent that the brainwashed believers of the gutter religion of Islam are totally unable to do that. This is why Democracy in the middle east is a lost cause. I just wish the neo-cons / George Bush would realize this simple concept.
I, myself, am no fan of laws against holocaust-denial.
But you see, we too have SOME limits too our freedom of speech. For instance, we cannot say that you are worthless and stupid because of your dark skin. That would be illegal here in Norway. So, in that perspective, I guess it´s hypocrisy that I condemn this sentence. Because we don´t have 100% freedom of speech either. But I don´t care. Being the arrongant, snorty, self indulgent european-zionist I am, I simply believe that my values are suprerior to yours in this matter. I am sure that our limitations too freedom of speech will gain any society more then the once you are advocating – unless your goal is to:
-Maintain a dictarorship by stealth.
-Surpress your people.
I believe history has proven me right.
Hosni Mubarak is a wankstain on the face of humanity. Islam is a joke and the women are all dogs.
Quit wasting your time trying to enlighten the knobs over there. Hop on a plane and come to the USA – you’d fit right in here.
If a man is not free to say what he wishes, then this is a cruel world indeed.
Yes, there are certain boosts to living in the U.S…
Your blog is featured on DrudgeReport today – that’ll bring a lot of traffic and support. Many of us here in the US wish you the best!
Geez. The 142 person trip (and growing) that we were planning for Egypt this spring is now cancelled. We’ll see the Pyramids when your government gets a grip on human rights and freedom. Perhaps our grandchildren (?) will see these national treasures…or not. We’re redirecting our group to the grand canyon here in the USA. It’s a zillion years old so actually more historic anyhow. And we can go there and not worry about religious or speech freedoms. See ya perhaps in 3007?
@Vinnie: Why call Islam a joke man? Egypt is not ruled by Islamists…you have to understand this, they are imprisoning him for speaking against the goverment…Quit associating everything bad with Islam.
Not trying to Argue with you, but these are the Goverments policies not Islams!
@Chuck: DONT STOP A LONG LIFE DREAM JUST BECAUSE OF THIS!
Hello,
I read about this guy’s issue some days ago. while you’re looking at from a ‘freedom of expression’ outlook, we as Muslims see it as if this guy is trying intentionally to defame Islam in the west’s eyes. and seriously, we dont need it at this point, we’re already being described as terrorists and murderers and this guy comes and adds fuel to the fire. he wants to talk politics, let him say whatever he wants, its a politically messed up world anyways. But to go and describe us as savages and brabarians especially that he’s one of us and his name is ‘Abdul Karim’, then seriously good riddance. I want to add another thing actually, you’re talking about a country which population exceeds 70 million people. Meaning that a change in regime will drastically affect the people. and i dont think that this guy will do a better job than Mubarak.
P.S Egypt is a beautiful country, ive been there twice. People are very nice and generous 🙂
This is wrong. President Mubarek is an IDIOT! Islam is a crock of shit just the same as all other religions, Christianity, Judaism etc. ALL OF THEM talk about peace and tolerance but then in the same breath they encourage Kill the infidels,..those who dont believe etc. What a bunch of hopeless contradictory rubbish. Hypocrits all of them! THERE IS NO GOD!!! All of you are deluded and to kill or inprison someone for the sake of an IMAGINARY GOD is ludicrous at best.
All you require is a code of decency towards your fellow man. On this point most religions all agree.
I say, “LEAVE GOD OUT OF IT! STOP KILLING EACH OTHER! LOSERS!”
It might be a good time to bail Sandmonkey.
Generous with their prisons.
Yes Zaphod… the world would be better off with athiests and ignorants, you give a fine example. generous with their prisons, Eric… what about guantanemo? the US is generous as well
If the comments on alarabiya are like anonymused writes will he abdel kareem at least get good treatment at the prison? I’m afraid for him that if that’s the overall opnion about him he might be harressed or something 🙁
@tsedek: He will not get good treatment in jail, to say the least:
http://www.freekareem.org/2007/02/22/kareem-amer-hit-minutes-after-sentencing/
The more relevant question probably is: Will he survive to live out his sentence? All it takes is for one screwball inmate or guard to decide that he should be the one to punish Kareem for his apostasy. And in prison, all sorts of “accidents” happen…
Moozies of the world unite!! Unite and crush that infidel AbdelKareem!
Allahu Akbar, everyone!
tsedek – Did you miss those sodomy videos that Egyptian bloggers posted on the systemic torture that happens throughout Egypt’s jails and prisons?
I’m terribly afraid of what awaits to Kareem in prison!! And I’m not talking about slaps and punches…
He needs to be freed! Period.
[…] 본 포스트는 아래의 두 신문을 바탕으로 작성되었습니다. 더 자세한 내용을 얻으시려면 아래의 링크로 직접 방문하셔서 내용을 확인하십시오. CNN의 기사에서 소개하고 있는 그의 동료 블로거의 글도 링크했는데, 포스트에는 거의 내용이 없고 관심 있으시면 댓글을 읽어보시는 게 더 유익할 것이라 판단됩니다. 더 읽을거리, Egypt blogger jailed for insults on CNN.com Egypt blogger jailed for ‘insult’ on BBC Breaking news: Abdel Karim gets sentenced on Rantings of a Sandmonkey ”This is yet another slap in the face of freedom for expression in Egypt” [본문으로] […]
SM, please please pleas be careful,. is there nothing that can be done now,, tellus what if anythig we can do,, i have already poste on LGF about this,, people there were afraid it was you. I will be praying for Abdel Karim every day for thses four years,,please keep us informe when ever you can about him. this is just terrible.
Zaphod – there are two forces on earth, good and evil; it is all about evil and nothing to do with religion. A person can profess to be a Christian in one breathe, and slay a person with the strike of his rod; this person is not a Christian just because he professes to be so; his actions, not his words determine he is a murderer and thus, evil.
This is unbelievable. Thank God I’m an Atheist (lol). Nop, in fact I’m a christian, glad to live in Brazil which is a country of freedom (even more than in ‘the home of the free’.
God bless everybody!
Egypt CAN be embarrassed enough to set aside the sentence. Last month, an Iranian girl defending herself from a rapist went from being sentenced to stoning to being free because of the international backlash.
SM, you have got to be in the top 3 (if not #1) category of bloggers who irritate Egypt’s government. You may have a good case for asylum in U.S., Canada or maybe even Israel or Lebanon.
I read on the Daily Telegraph site that Kareem is Sandmonkey. Glad to see that is incorrect.
Take care.
This is why people think arabs and musilims are crazy. And then they think the west hates them. And then they literaly EXPLODE their way to heaven.
SO SAD…
SM, I join with most other people in here in wishing you all the best and safe journey. Having someone that reports from the inside of this mess of “your world” is wonderful informative, but it sounds like it’s time to reconsider your position and get to a safe position outside the realm of these crazies.
You’ll be more than welcome in the US; maybe like a government in exile … who knows. I know you must be split between this and your family; not an easy position to be in.
So best wishes and PLEASE take care of yourself. This is frigging scary reading.
LOL…reading the redneck comments here, if sandmonkey actually sides with these bigots…then I hope he’s next…
Can someone here post a brief summary of Abdel Karim’s case? I want to make a translation for a Czech website. Thanks.
Buy the NZZ, Friday – Neue Züricher Zeitung – dated 23. February one of the leading Newspaper in german language. The report of ber, Kairo 22. Febr.
explains the clear and sad situation in Egypt as well as the organisation of the blogger network. Sandmonkey gets fantastic comments and very good support for his engagement in the NZZ!!!! – This is how I found the web-side today… For Sandmonkeys as a reporter it is the best shelter to be noticed by the highqualified press working worldwide. Sandmonkey take care and spread out your messages throughout the o p e n world!!
@Eva If you visit the above pingbacked post, you can see the cnn and bbc news link.
I can not believe that this sort of thing happens in a state that I thought was progressive! Looks like I have another country to strike off my list of places to see. I will not support a regime that perpetrates such injustice.
Sandmonkey, seriously dude, get the fuck out of dodge. (even if it is just for a vacation you should go, this judgement stinks in a bad way)
17: Chip:
I would have no trouble calling our prime minister or even the queen an idiot, and criticizing Islam would only bring me a lot of hot air from our local muslim population, who – like their brethren everywhere – feel they should be excempt from any form of criticism. Fortunately, our laws only prohibit discrimination by and outright slander of religion, race and sexual orientation, not negative argumentation… Even if I did cross the line, a heavy fine would likely be all I’d risk.
25: leo:
Hey, you’d be surprised how much a few hundred thousand less tourists can do to a country that relies almost solely on the tourist industri for it’s income. During the cartoon incident, scandinavian visits to Egypt went down with almost 100.000, prompting a hurried visit by Egypts cultural (tourist?) minister, insuring us that Egypt did not condone any physical or economical repercusions towards Denmark because of the 12 cartoons.
Ups, this report says it is the Sandmonkey who is going to jail. Could we be so lucky? 😉 http://missmabrouk.blogspot.com/2007/02/abdel-kareem-sentenced-to-four-years.html
Islam is not a religion it is a life (and frequently a death) sentence.
Heba Says:
February 23rd, 2007 at 1:00 am
Hello,
while you’re looking at from a ‘freedom of expression’ outlook, we as Muslims see it as if this guy is trying intentionally to defame Islam in the west’s eyes. and seriously, we dont need it at this point, we’re already being described as terrorists and murderers and this guy comes and adds fuel to the fire. But to go and describe us as savages and brabarians especially that he’s one of us and his name is ‘Abdul Karim’, then seriously good riddance.
Imprisoning bloggers isn’t going to help you prove to the world that you’re not savages and barbarians. In fact it’ll do the opposite.
P.S Egypt is a beautiful country, ive been there twice. People are very nice and generous
Yes, it is a beautiful country. Unfortunately it’s run by savages and barbarians.
Freedom of speech does not mean you can say whatever you like in public. The relevant bit of international law http://www.ohchr.org/english/law/ccpr.htm states –
1. Everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference.
2. Everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice.
3. The exercise of the rights provided for in paragraph 2 of this article carries with it special duties and responsibilities. It may therefore be subject to certain restrictions, but these shall only be such as are provided by law and are necessary:
(a) For respect of the rights or reputations of others;
(b) For the protection of national security or of public order (ordre public), or of public health or morals.
“public health or morals”. Seems to me that in the opinion of the Egyptian courts this man broke the law of the land. I do not agree with it but that is irrelevant.
What’s that Jackal going on about? any chance to rant about evil Islam, hey?
The man was sentenced by the secular Mubarak regime (that rapes and tortures islamists, and that created al-qaeda’s ideology–read about Al-Zahrawi for details).
Anyway, Jackal (I assume you’re American) why don’t you lobby your government to stop supporting Mubaraks regime untill he reforms? would be more useful than ranting about how evil muslims are…
85: Uragan:
With that kind of reasoning, public moral could be whatever a specific person in power considers immoral – this is not compatible with democracy!
I prefer our way up here in scandinavia – there is no such thing as morally punishable speech. You can say whatever you want as long as you don’t slander someone groundlessly, incite others to break the law or degrade someone solely on the grounds of their race, religion or sexual observation. The first and latter is usually ignored unless it is of an extreme nature or appears in a very public debate.
“Renée Says:
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I hear ya, Adam. Thank God I live in the USA.”
hahahahaha – good one!
see you on an extraordinary rendition soon, stupid.
FUCK YOU, FREEDOM FOR ABDEL
Sign the petition
http://www.petitiononline.com/KAmer/
No aid to Egypt until Karim is freed.
Freedom is a right not a privilege. #3538
Anybody thinking this isn’t about islam should go out and read the quran.
33:36 is about exactly this topic. And the “real” islam, in the quran makes it a death sentence offence, not just of free speach, but free thought.
Now let the “but muslims don’t follow the quran”-nuts start screaming. Go for it.
Zaphod;
THERE IS NO GOD!!! All of you are deluded and to kill or inprison someone for the sake of an IMAGINARY GOD
Um Zaphod, perhaps you should review the great human rights accomplishments made by Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao- atheists all and striving to impose it on everyone else.
I think Mod Pharaoh Said all That Egypt is not “ruled” by Islamists, One thing
he failed to add was the YET!!! You folks are being mislead, why would you think that the Muslim Brotherhood would put their agenda in English Please don’t be so naive.
I looked at the newspapers today where I noticed the words “sandmonkey” and “prison”..I almost had a fit! Thankfully, they were just quoting your comments.
I admire you for not getting plastic surgery or a sex change and changing your identity or getting your passport and getting the hell outta there..We need more people like you!
Take Care, Sandmonkey.
What a load load of self righteous crap.
Why dont you shit on France for making denying the Armenian massacre a crime (IT DID HAPPEN), but if i dont buy it, I shouldnt be jailed.
Anyways, i think most of you like the fact that sand monkey is shitting on his people and gives you asn excuse to shit along with him.
I don’t blame him, he seems to be craving the attention from his friends form the free world, and he seems to have found what the free world likes.
All gods are the invention of man. All prophets are charlatans. And the Egyptian president is even more dishonest and deluded than Tony Blair. We are forced to tolerate this medieval superstitious nonsense in Londonistan but at least we can criticise it.
There is an easy (well, sort of) answer to this kind of state repression. It is called civil disobedience. And it is basically what Abdel Karim was doing, although he may not have thought of it as such.
If Egyptians want the government to cut this crap out, someone needs to start a campaign to get every Egyptian with an internet connection to start a blog. Identify themselves by name, and then start insulting the heck out of the president. If you could even get just 500-1000 people to do it, I’m reasonably certain the government would have to cave in.
Now, the islam insults are a bit harder, since you’re not going to be able to get as many people onboard, and with sectarian tensions some people might blame copts, etc. But for the insulting the regime charges this should work like a charm. The trick is to find people courageous enough to do it and risk jail time. Because at least some of those 500-1000 will get jail time, as did many of Martin Luther King’s supporters.
Good luck Abdel Karim, and everyone else.
Abdel Kareem, Egypt’s Free Speech Martyr
The four-year jail sentence of student blogger Abdel Kareem Soliman for the crimes of “contempt for religion” and “insulting the president” has dealt a harsh blow to the Egyptian blogosphere and free speech in the Middle East in the…
This is OUTRAGEOUS! Whatever happened to freedom of speech? Oh wait… nevermind, there’s so much corruption, that people get jailed for caring about their country and hoping to improve it. I wish him luck, and if there’s a petition I can sign, I will be happy to do so. 🙂
A couple of days ago I finished reading Infidel … My Story by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. She was Muslim until she started to think for herself. She’s still alive but Theo Van Gogh who she collaborated with in a ten minute film called Submission was murdered in an Amsterdam Street. He was shot, his throat was slit and a letter addressed to Hirsi Ali was pinned to his body with a knife. I have no doubts whatsoever that the killer was 100% convinced that God would reward him for avenging the insult to Islam caused by the film. I don’t think of the killer as being an extremist … he was merely following the teachings of the Koran. I cannot recall, in any interview that I have heard, any Muslim deny any part of the Koran; no matter how repulsive. Try it … try asking a Muslim if adultery should be punished by death … that apostastates should be killed … or homosexuals. They will go all around the houses in an effort to avoid saying that these things are wrong. It’s too ingrained or they perhaps fear retribution by their co-religionists for their “blasphemy.”
I think Sandmonkey is an incredibly brave guy and deserves any help he can get.
Thank god I’m an atheist!
I don’t like you SM and I think your views are dumb,especially after you wrote that traitorous piece telling tourists to stay away from Misr,but it might be time to bail. Mubarak seems to be cracking down HARD.
Oh I donated $1.00 to your “emergency escape money”. It won’t take that much for you to get to Israel. I know that’s where you will be welcomed!
Emily @ 103,
“but it might be time to bail. Mubarak seems to be cracking down HARD”
Has it occured to you that you might be next for whatever reason?
Just remember.
Infidel can be killed for being an infidel. Muslim can be killed for being bad Muslim. Egyptian can be killed for being bad Egyptian …
I_Caca_dau,
I agree with you about France. I, for one, think people wishing to deny historical facts should be allowed to. I don’t think it’s entirely benign, but in a free society, you have to tolerate that. Plus it makes it easier to expose them for the frauds that they are.
But it’s kinda funny how the anti-American left in the USA keeps repeating their mantra that “dissent is the highest form of patriotism”. Why is it in the USA, but not elsewhere?
http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/a/146858.htm
SM may be wrong. And you are well within your rights to disagree with him. But he also ought to have the right to express his (perhaps wrong) opinion. No?
Emily,
SM would likely be welcomed into Israel. And so would you.
bj
BrooklynJohn
You are right on the money. I just want to clarify that I still respect SM’s right to express his opinion. I was just merely expressing mine.
Cheers
I have a question.
Was that conviction legal? Is inslulting Islam a crime? how about insluting the president?
If indeed that was the case then I guess he got what he deserved according to Egyptian Laws. No matter how messed up these laws are.
Smoking weed in Amsterdam is not the same as smoking weed in China. Not that I agree with these laws, but whatever happened to respecting the law of the land? If he wanted to change these laws or fight them he could have at least waited to get his degree and IIRC, he was a law student and he probably would have been more useful to the cause than being behind bars.
I read it in our newspapers here in Canada this morning, I am very shocked and saddened that here in 2007 someone can be get a sentence to 4 years in jail for something like this. If islam and egypt feel so insecure at freedom of speech , then let them realize it and move out of the 7th centery and join the rest of us living today. Egypt today suffers as a third world nation because God has turned his back on it. God in the Holy Bible said he punishes nations for their sin. It is impossible that islam and muhammd is the last messanger and faith , as this religion and man(muhammd ) has taken approx 1 billion people backwards in time and morals .. We could ask, why are non-muslim morals higher then this so called god allahs ? .
We reconized pedophila as a sickening crime againest humanity, a crime againest our very children , the future of everyone. Yet not only was muhammd a child abuser and pedophile at the age of 54 marrying a 6 year old girl, but he also write in his quran that men can marry and divorce prepuberant little girls. See 65:4 of the quran, which speaks about 3 types of divorce, – 1. those who have passed the age of courses, 2, those who dont have courses , and 3 those who carry . The waiting time to divorce a woman is 3 months. When we exmaine the tafsirs ( which are islams offical books that explain the quran ), these tafsirs- Kortaby – Tabary – Iban Katheer- – Gelaleen and Iban Abass , explain that this verse ” those who have no courses ” is refering to the very young wife who has not had a course yet.
Sad, that a book which is known outside of the islamic world as false ,that muahmmd wrote, could take mankind backwards to the 7th century desert barbaric arab’s world and claim to be gods word and finial message. To think that god almighy promotes the sexual abuse of children is rediculous and one has only to open his mind to see that muahmmd added this to his book to justify his own pehophila abuse of aisha.This and many other things written in the quran such as allah ording wife beating for the wife that you suspect does not behave ( quran 4:34 ) is deplorable..Would the real god of this world tell me they can beat their wife ?. Crazy .
Muhammd also said in his quran that his that followers could have 4 wives each , yet he himself broke his so called god’s law and took for himself more then 15. Muhammd when he wrote the quran ,made up laws and fabircations to suit his needs and then later broke those very same laws to suit his personal perversions, all with his god’s blessings.
Anyone who examines the quran with an open mind and heart can see it is not a a book from God. I have listed just a couple of the lies and sin’s this book promotes, however there are many many more.
Egypt needs a new government , one that reconizes all its people and gives them the right to think for themselves. They need to work harder to act on the human rights charter, they and many other muslim countries signed on human rights. Egyptions need a police force they can trust, one that they feel is there working for them, a police force they won’t be scared of. Egypt needs a goverment that will work for the people , to ensure that not only education , health, and prosperity avil but prosper, that jobs and economy improve and that each of it’s citizens can have and realize that dream for tomorrow, and not just looking for what they will eat the next day.
Egyptions are good people, they just need the chance.
I hope and pray that the goverment of egypt will realize very soon that they can not continue in their old ways and will free this man from his sentence. … because all the world is watching .
U.S. ‘CONCERNED’ AT BLOGGER CONVICTION
Cairo, 23 Feb. (AKI) – The sentencing of a young Egyptian blogger to four years jail, for insulting Islam and the country’s president, has been criticised by Washington. “We are very concerned for the sentence of Abdel Kareem Suleiman, convicted for having expressed his personal opinions,” said Tom Casey, US state department deputy spokesman.
“While we have great respect for all religions, including certainly Islam, the role of freedom of expression is critical for the development of a democratic and prosperous society,” Casey said. “And so free expression of opinion and free speech are a critical component of that, including on the Internet. And I think we view them as part of general, basic human rights.”
In a statement, rights group Amnesty International described the court ruling as “yet another slap in the face of freedom of expression in Egypt.”
“The Egyptian authorities must protect the peaceful exercise of freedom of expression, even if the views expressed might be perceived by some as offensive,” commented Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui, Amnesty’s Middle East and North Africa Deputy Program Director who also said that the rights group considers Kareem “to be a prisoner of conscience”.
Reporters without Borders considered the sentence “an intimidatory message aimed at Egyptian bloggers” who in recent years have become an effective counterweight to the “authoritarian tendencies of the government.”
Kareem, 22, a Muslim and a liberal, has not denied writing the articles but said they merely represented his own views.
In one of his online diaries he accused the university of al-Azhar in Cairo, the highest seat of Sunni Muslim learning, of promoting extreme ideas. He has also likened veteran president Hosni Mubarak to the dictatorial pharaohs who ruled ancient Egypt.
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=CultureAndMedia&loid=8.0.389330152&par=0
(Ale/Aki)
Feb-23-07 12:36
To learn more about the false teachings of islam. please visit our site at http://www.investigateislam.com , with more then 370,000 visiters each week to our site.
101: Jim Dixon:
Actually, quite a few prominent, moderate muslims in Denmark contradicted many of the sayings (or whatever) apparently found in the Quran afterthe cartoon incident. They did not do it specifically to show that they disagree with parts of the islamic teachings, but they condemned these practices all the same…
Just shows what a good, clean, open discussion can accomplish in a free society! Now, if only our neighbours *cough*Sweden, England, Norway, etc.*cough* would stop harrasing us and start an open discussion themselves…! 😉
102: Emily Says:
Isn’t nice to have the freedom to express such views without risking prosecution or even violent retributions…? 🙂
108: I_Caca_dau Says:
He may have been prosecuted according to the laws of Egypt (doubt it!), but even if that is the case, those aren”t the laws of a state that respects the concept of human rights and freedom of speech – the basics of any true democracy…!
Sir, isn’t correct that Egypt was the first country outside Danmark to publish (Oct 17, 2005) the so called Muhammad cartoons?
Afterwards, what has happened to that Egyptian newspaper? If anything at all.
The name was Al Fager.
Still, you can see the cartoons today – as you undoubtedly know,
and
Warmly, Helle
This is a tragedy on so many levels. I hope that through pressure (of logic, common sense, and what is right) and activist groups this sentence is dropped and he may return to the keyboard again. People fear words because they cannot be silenced, they live on forever. This act will only fuel the frenzy. I wish him all the best and hope he stays strong. He is an inspiration to many.
I just want to express my solidarity.
Ironically, Abdel Karim honours on his page the famous dissidents Hans and Sophie Scholl, martyrs of free speech in Nazi Germany.
They were beheaded.
Now the crowd cries for beheading of Abdel Karim.
Do they know that’s the same spirit?
Anyway, its not the spirit of the mercyfull and compassionate god I am believing in!
Heidelbaer
I am sorry for this unjust sentence. I am Egyptian by birth. I left Egypt in 1972 and have never been back eversince. I lived under the Tyrany of Naser back in the sixties.After all these decades I was hoping Egypt will some day change. Regretfully Egypt had come out of corrupt monarchy to military dicatatorship. It is good that there are still brave young men who thirsty for freedom. You remind of myself when I was your age.I happen to be a converted Muslim and I know that most of what you say about Isalm is true not only historically but also currently. In contrast with Islam Our Bible taught us to love our enemy. It is not easy of course but possible by the grace of God. I can not change your unjust sentece but I promise to pray for your freedom not only from the Egyptian prison but also from the spiritual darkness in all false religions. Only Christ can give that freedom if you humbly acknowlege that you are a sinner and Christ has paid for your sins on the cross of Calvary. Would you consider accepting God’s forgiveness of sins and receive Christ as your ONLY way to heaven. May God give the boldness to take that step toward eterenity
We will be praying for you and for the deliverance of the Egyptian people from the darkness if Islam.
I love the bible too.
Did u read the warning on cover?
I doubt it… LOL
O_o holy crap thats a really bad reason for putting someone in jail.
Aliandra says:
–Um Zaphod, perhaps you should review the great human rights accomplishments made by Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao- atheists all and striving to impose it on everyone else.–
What’s the difference between atheists striving to impose it on everyone else and Islam striving to impose it on everyone else? If you are looking for excuses, you are searching in the wrong garbage can.
Eva @ 119
“great human rights accomplishments made by Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao- atheists all and striving to impose it on everyone else”
Atheists? Is Communism not religion? Doesn’t it have its own holy book and prophets?
Are atheists the only ones who can be dictators and power hungry bloody despots?
Eva @ 119, sorry. I meant to direct my comment to Aliandra @ 93.
My appologies.
I think that this pig deserve more than four years, u must all know that your freedom ends when the others freedom starts
u have always the rights to choose your religion and beliefs without insulting another belif or religion
To all non-Egyptians who claimed to free this dog: it is not your bussiness to choose us the way we can treat pigs and dogs in our country, this is our constitution and our laws that the majority of egyptians choose to apply in our country
“mesh 3ayzeen 7ad ye sho7’elna fe dma3’na”
Shut up camel@122
Egyptian @ 122,
“your freedom ends when the others freedom starts”
This is exactly the problem.
Freedom is until it does not exist anymore.
If this is what Egyptian constitution implies, probably few amendments are in order.
“your freedom ends when the others freedom starts”
Now, let’s move it to personal level.
Exactly at what point your freedom ends and whose freedom can override yours?
Whose freedom can be nullified by your freedom?
Am I too cryptic? Should I go slower?
122. Egyptian:
Sure it’s our business – I’ll voice my opinion on anything I percieve is an injustice whenever I please. I live in a free country and that is my prerogative… 🙂
The fact that the majority of egyptians seem to support a set of laws that differentiate between sex, race and religion to the detriment of the basic human rights does your (and their) case no good in the least… I, for one, will certainly show my displeasure by a complete personal boycot of all things egyptian as long as Kareem remains unvindicated!
If you can’t enforce the simplest of human rights, you will feel it on your purse!
122 “Egyptian” – YOU sadly are the exact problem that is plaguing Egypt!
Your logic and mentality (besides the ridiculous sentence) are what embarasses the country of Egypt, not the simple writings of Kareem!
It seems many Egyptians have no concept of any of the values of democracy, really. Everything, I mean everything, gets trumped by Islam.
122 Egyption ,
you said:
“u have always the rights to choose your religion and beliefs without insulting another belif or religion”
and this is a BIG lie in islam. people are born into the religion of their parents , and If that child grows up and finds that islam is FALSE and leaves it . YOur pitiful prophet said , you should kill him.
is that the freedom to choose your talking about ?
islam a a trash. allah is a pimp and muahmmd is a whore.
Go study your quran and hadiths to see how filthy your allah and muhmmad are. Your allah jumps for your muhammd like a dog for a bone.
To learn more about the truth of what the false islam teaches , visit us at
http://www.investigateislam.com
…a site where 360,000 people weekly are learning what islam really teaches.
Egyptian,
How does one person expressing his views limit your freedom to express yours? It does not. Kareem has not encroached on your freedom.
Perhaps you mean your ‘freedom’ not to have your beliefs questioned and challenged? Will you then shut up and not question or challenge Kareem’s views?
You state ‘u have always the rights to choose your religion and beliefs without insulting another belif or religion.’ You then call him a pig and a dog because of the beliefs he has expressed.
Your arguments will not wash. To be consistent we would all have to shut up and stop talking to each other. But I do not think this is what you mean.
You mean there is one privileged set of beliefs which should never be challenged. Strangely I think we will find that it is precisely your beliefs which you think should enjoy this status.
And please do not come the ‘we respect all prophets’ line with me. What is the virtue in that? I do not believe there is a god. Therefore there can have been no prophets. Consequently those who have claimed that status for themselves were at best deluded.
Presumably I have just insulted 120,000 prophets. Isn’t that the number Islam believes have been sent to mankind? Oh, and insulted 1.4 billion muslims too (or have we reached 1.5 billion yet?). But I am not quivering in my boots.
I’m deeply saddened about an unjust world – and sometimes also a bit ashamed to live in a country like switzerland where bloggers have no other problems than to exchange news about the newest starbucks coffee teast, their own vanity or annoing other people with their boredom of life – what a shame! I was spreading the news on all my blog links! keep on your work! I/we always think of you and keep your courage in our hearts!!
SM, please consider leaving Egypt. Soon.
SM,
what lynne said.
bj
Call me Kaffir, call me Gentile, call me Sassenach or Pommie bastard, insult my family and friends, ridicule my beliefs and draw cartoons of Charles Darwin as a monkey, laugh at my destiny in hell if you want.
The law must not censor offensive comments and neither must it prevent me saying that Jesus was a fraud, Mohamed was a paedophile and the virgin Mary came up with the greatest lie in history.
This court decisions makes me ill. I just hope that the result we get out of this is bolder, louder Egyptian bloggers and not the example that the Egyptian government wants. Let Kareem Amer become a rally point for freedom of speech in the Middle East.
To leo @ 124
ok man, lets move it to personal level
I will tell u how your freedom ends when others freedom starts, how about coming every day in front of your house and abuse you and your family ??, then I say it is my freedom !! why r u sad ??!! and if you say that u will not be sad, then dare to leave your address here 🙂
To adam @ 125
sure u have the right to voice you opinion on anything and everywhere and sure I have also the right to throw it in the nearest trash
To egypter @ 126
ha ha, describing my words about insulting a person as a ridiculous and describing the writings of Kareem that insult a religion of 1,400 million person around the world as “simple words” indicate how logic thinking you are..
simply tells me that your have a complicated LOGICAL algorithm in your intelligent mind that proves that 1 > 1,300 million
To iceyy @ 127
it seems that all your information about islam, you take it from these sites you are spreading. try to be fair and read from an islamic source.
i am sorry to tell u that your information are WRONG, not any one that leaves islam deserve punishment but only the one who tries to spread fake vision about islam like the pig you are defending, if u are a muslim and you left islam to become Christian, atheist or whatever and you simply lived in peace without insulting other beliefs, YOU WILL BE VERY RESPECTED IN THE ISLAMIC COMMUNITY
To 129
refer to my response to 124
I didn’t call him a pig and a dog because of his beliefs, man, but because he insulted my religion that i love more that my self
“You mean there is one privileged set of beliefs which should never be challenged” please tell me where in the hell i meant that !!
yes, we respect all prophets and we respect u also even if u don’t believe in god, but when u insult my religion i ll not respect u anymore
We need some laws like this in the US of A to rein in the liberal, ant-God media. If these Hollywood & MSM news people could get a few years in prison for mocking Christianity and our Saviour, us Christains could get our religous freedom back!
136:
That would have happened if christianists were voted in. Fortunately, most voters woke up and stopped voting them in.
Besides christians are confused. you worship a 40 year old virgin who used to spend a lot of time alone, and yet you are against homosexuals. Explain that to me.
Don’t kid urself with the whole christianity being a religion of love mumbo jumbo. It is not. christianity is a religion that can be altered to suit any agenda. I am not even talking about the crusades, coz that seems to be overplayed. just look the falwells and the robertsons in ur country ( i am sure u r a big fan) I loved it when they were praying for their troops during the first days of the iraqi war, they were actually praying for the iraqis to surrender, somehow that made them good christians. As if the US military wouldn’t just walk all over the so called Iraqi army. And what if they didnt surrender, i guess they would have to be killed, since they are going against the will of god.
Then he went on to explain that the iraq war is a biblical prophecy being fulfilled, I loved that too. It really opened my mind to a lot of things. christians expect everybody to follow their beliefs as if it is the natural thing to do. They just do it under the name of other slogans like democracy and freedom.
It is ur christian faith that is behind the war in Iraq and it is ur christian leaders who are behind the murder of all those people in Iraq and elsewhere.
so yes, christianity is a very dangerous ideology.
Egyption,
you are wrong ., here is one of several of your pitiful prophets hadiths.
(Sahih Bukhari 4.260)
Narrated Ikrima:
Ali burnt some people [hypocrites] and this news reached Ibn ‘Abbas, who said, “Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, ‘Don’t punish (anybody) with Allah’s Punishment.’ No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.’ ”
We don’t need to take from websites, when we have have the quran and hadiths and tafsirs in front of us . Those are what exposes you most. For example . 65:4 of your quran is a filthy false teaching , where men are given a perscription of how to divorce a little kid.
…. what is wrong with you people ?
Wake up , its immoral to sexuall abuse a small kid then on top of it throw them out the door when you are finished with her, .. but here in the quran your allah tells men to wait 3 months to divorce her , just in case she got pregenant on her first period .. and this from god ?
allah shows himself to be just an idol that sits in your kaba, he has no eyes to see and no ears to hear and no brain to think… he is just an evil idea from the pagan 7th centery dusty , dirty barbaric arabia that muhammd thought up
check out the unrefutable truth on my paper at
http://www.investigateislam.com/cgi-bin/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=69
I have listed all your tafsirs ( your offical tafsirs from the goverment of Saudi Arabic – the head of the snake ) there for you to check out and remember , its not up to you to explain the quran , only the tafsirs . And btw egption , take the chance to take those the verse from 65:4 to your mosque leader and ask him to explain it to you … he will go straight to these very same tafsirs I gave you and tell you the same thing..
Sick ? you bet ya.
There is no going back now. As we read arabic and tell others what the quran is trying to hide from the non muslims.
Islam is being opened up like a can of worms and each worm falling out is killing you, one by one.
The World is learning.
I highly recommend that you egyption read the Holy Bible,
Once the light comes on , it never goes out . Jesus is the light of the World.
iceyyy
Iceyyy- its ok to be in love with the yemenite. but to do his dirty work? dont u know he is using you? he already has a wife. poor thing.